Trapping...Does it work?

[NaSZ]

I'm going to quote a message I got from one of my Conversation with a great person, in my own words...

"Depends what opponent you put in front of you, anything can work on someone who isn't very good."

Trapping can work great, but just as the quote above says, it really depends on the person in front of you. People are different.
Besides you wouldn't or shouldn't use the same fighting strategies on everyone...

Yes this is very true...but im talking about good fighters, a good opponent.
Can you take them with trapping or is it just worthless??
No Im training quite a while and really the more I train the less I believe in trapping. Its really just punching, kicking (most low) and grappling...maybe one pak sao or lap sao would work, but doing all those trapping moves is just not realistic.
Offcourse for every (good) opponent is a different strategy.
And answering you about fighting somebody who is not a good fighter...well then I wouldnt trap but do the same as I do against a good fighter, try to knock him down in the most efficient way.

But maybe im just a no good trapper..but still I never saw one fight (JKDer) trap in a real fight...only in class when he says if you do this i will do that..well thats for me trying to decieve your students.

[Justthefacts]

2nd Generation

WS: All you need to do is ask a few high-profile 2nd Generation JKD instructors if trapping works in REAL LIFE situations. I would bet the house that the answer would be an unqualified YES. Sifu's Paul Vunak and Lamar Davis have used trapping techniques to their advantage in several street fights. Just a few years ago, Sifu Davis used a basic trapping technique to end a confrontation at a nightclub in Alabama. Several reliable witnesses were present during this encounter. Sifu Davis apparantly used a lan sao (e.g., bar arm) to pin his 300 pound opponent against a wall and the fight ended a few seconds later. Trapping is like any other fighting technique. When used properly under certain circumstances, trapping will save your butt.

[John McNabney]

Steve Golden

Sifu Steve Golden was a black belt under Ed Parker in the mid-60's and he joined Bruce Lee's Chinatown school in 1967. Golden told an interviewer about a time when he was working out with Bruce Lee in the bar of a closed Chinese restaurant. Golden states, "We were doing Chi Sao and I couldn't hit him. I told him that you can't beat a man at his own game. He looked at me and said, "That's not my game." I asked him what was. He said, "Try and stop me." We squared off as though we were going to fight. I was already a black belt in Kenpo and I lasted two seconds. He had both of my arms TRAPPED against my body while I was bent over backwards on a piano and he had his fingers in my eyes. Then he looked at me and said, "That's my game."

Translation: Bridge the gap, pak sao, then lan sao, followed by a finger jab.

What do ya know, trapping works!

Steve Golden has told me this personally among other things....Thanks for sharing it again.... Steve & his lovely wife are some kool human beings.... My wife and I get along great with them... He's been to my school and we where just out to house for dinner in August.... They showed us around.... Bruce Lee would be proud of the way he handles things...


Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney

[Wi-Stickboxer]

Sifu Steve Golden was a black belt under Ed Parker in the mid-60's and he joined Bruce Lee's Chinatown school in 1967. Golden told an interviewer about a time when he was working out with Bruce Lee in the bar of a closed Chinese restaurant. Golden states, "We were doing Chi Sao and I couldn't hit him. I told him that you can't beat a man at his own game. He looked at me and said, "That's not my game." I asked him what was. He said, "Try and stop me." We squared off as though we were going to fight. I was already a black belt in Kenpo and I lasted two seconds. He had both of my arms TRAPPED against my body while I was bent over backwards on a piano and he had his fingers in my eyes. Then he looked at me and said, "That's my game."

Translation: Bridge the gap, pak sao, then lan sao, followed by a finger jab.

What do ya know, trapping works!

Do you have any more recent examples?

[Justthefacts]

Steve Golden

Sifu Steve Golden was a black belt under Ed Parker in the mid-60's and he joined Bruce Lee's Chinatown school in 1967. Golden told an interviewer about a time when he was working out with Bruce Lee in the bar of a closed Chinese restaurant. Golden states, "We were doing Chi Sao and I couldn't hit him. I told him that you can't beat a man at his own game. He looked at me and said, "That's not my game." I asked him what was. He said, "Try and stop me." We squared off as though we were going to fight. I was already a black belt in Kenpo and I lasted two seconds. He had both of my arms TRAPPED against my body while I was bent over backwards on a piano and he had his fingers in my eyes. Then he looked at me and said, "That's my game."

Translation: Bridge the gap, pak sao, then lan sao, followed by a finger jab.

What do ya know, trapping works!

[fire cobra]

FC: I hear it all the time, LOL. Bruce Lee and his students were/are living proof that trapping works. A few months before his death, Lee told Wing Chun brother Hawkins Cheung that the foundation of JKD was "Pak Sao and hip." Bruce Lee's trapping techniques were not passive nor were they the "patty-cake" traps taught by some JKD instructors. Bruce Lee employed the pak sao and the lan sao to completely shut his opponent(s) down.

I bet you do bro.

Nice info thanks.

[Justthefacts]

Pak Sao and Hip

FC: I hear it all the time, LOL. Bruce Lee and his students were/are living proof that trapping works. A few months before his death, Lee told Wing Chun brother Hawkins Cheung that the foundation of JKD was "Pak Sao and hip." Bruce Lee's trapping techniques were not passive nor were they the "patty-cake" traps taught by some JKD instructors. Bruce Lee employed the pak sao and the lan sao to completely shut his opponent(s) down.

[fire cobra]

From 1959-1973, Bruce Lee engaged in 12 documented street fights. In 8 of those street fights, Bruce used trapping techniques. In the 4 remaining fights, he used the side kick to end those confrontations. So, when his butt was on the line, Bruce Lee tended to use the techniques that were already part of his neuromuscular system when he returned to the United States in 1959.

And thats a fact (lol sorry bro couldnt resist!).

[Justthefacts]

Real Life Combat

From 1959-1973, Bruce Lee engaged in 12 documented street fights. In 8 of those street fights, Bruce used trapping techniques. In the 4 remaining fights, he used the side kick to end those confrontations. So, when his butt was on the line, Bruce Lee tended to use the techniques that were already part of his neuromuscular system when he returned to the United States in 1959.

[Baki Hanma]

I practicing JKD and we train a lot of trapping, only when im sparring I dont trap or C anybody else do trapping.
For me when im sparring its like...I Box and Kick, when Im to close ill try to get the opponent to the ground by wrestle and locking.

My question is...Does Trapping really work in a real fight or even in sparring.

Even when I see that Longbeach demo where you C Bruce spar...I dont see any trapping in his style..

I'm going to quote a message I got from one of my Conversation with a great person, in my own words...

"Depends what opponent you put in front of you, anything can work on someone who isn't very good."

Trapping can work great, but just as the quote above says, it really depends on the person in front of you. People are different.
Besides you wouldn't or shouldn't use the same fighting strategies on everyone...

[fire cobra]

there was a stickiness drill in shotokan karate we used to do, it was a bit too rigid to perhaps be practical as the stickiness requires softness as you said previously, however it was practiced a fair bit and sort of worked. i cant see it lend itself to their stance well though at all. but it shows how fairly universal it is for it to pop in a system like that.

Thats interesting Ghost,fairly universal concept then eh,its also in Goju Ryu to,actually I like Karate especially the older styles but I guess thats for a different thread.

[Ghost]

Makes sense to me Ghost,I had a feeling thats where you were coming from,and I agree that the stickiness doesnt really constitiute a trap,and the stickiness can be done all over,hence we have it in Muay Thai to.

there was a stickiness drill in shotokan karate we used to do, it was a bit too rigid to perhaps be practical as the stickiness requires softness as you said previously, however it was practiced a fair bit and sort of worked. i cant see it lend itself to their stance well though at all. but it shows how fairly universal it is for it to pop in a system like that.

[fire cobra]

Yeah you have understood me there. I personally think the two have to be separated, i know it might seem anal but the stickiness is a fairly universal concept, albeit a fairly advanced one, but the actual pinning is more unique to certain arts, and therefore should be separated.

Im less keen on the direct pinning, but all for the stickiness type stuff. I didnt actually think that it qualified as trapping as such.
I expect trapping could be seen as a redirecting and pinning + the stickiness and the stickiness can be on its own and when on its own is just that, not trapping.

hope that makes some sense, im by no means trying to re-write what defines trapping but i feel they are not the same things.

Makes sense to me Ghost,I had a feeling thats where you were coming from,and I agree that the stickiness doesnt really constitiute a trap,and the stickiness can be done all over,hence we have it in Muay Thai to.

[Ghost]

Thanks Ghost,

Are you talking more about a pinning technique,ie pressing the opponents arm into his body for example as a trap?.

I am just trying to see where we are all coming from when thinking of the word trap,the word itself could conjure up all sorts of examples couldnt it,personally I think of trap as a obstruction of your opponents limb,and I see so many valuable ways to do it.

I like your description of the stickiness in Muay Thai,I have recently had yet another experience of a high level boxer doing that to me and its amazing to think of Muay Thai as being so soft!.

Yeah you have understood me there. I personally think the two have to be separated, i know it might seem anal but the stickiness is a fairly universal concept, albeit a fairly advanced one, but the actual pinning is more unique to certain arts, and therefore should be separated.

Im less keen on the direct pinning, but all for the stickiness type stuff. I didnt actually think that it qualified as trapping as such.
I expect trapping could be seen as a redirecting and pinning + the stickiness and the stickiness can be on its own and when on its own is just that, not trapping.

hope that makes some sense, im by no means trying to re-write what defines trapping but i feel they are not the same things.

[fire cobra]

Hi mate
Well the kind of stickiness you see in muay thai which obstructs their movement is present in basically every martial art, forms a large part of aikido and is even present in karate and just about every other martial art.

What you see going on wing chun, direct trapping of the arm is only found in a few martial arts and therefore i think they should be kept seperate.

Thanks Ghost,

Are you talking more about a pinning technique,ie pressing the opponents arm into his body for example as a trap?.

I am just trying to see where we are all coming from when thinking of the word trap,the word itself could conjure up all sorts of examples couldnt it,personally I think of trap as a obstruction of your opponents limb,and I see so many valuable ways to do it.

I like your description of the stickiness in Muay Thai,I have recently had yet another experience of a high level boxer doing that to me and its amazing to think of Muay Thai as being so soft!.