Trapping...Does it work?

[fire cobra]

From 1959-1973, Bruce Lee engaged in 12 documented street fights. In 8 of those street fights, Bruce used trapping techniques. In the 4 remaining fights, he used the side kick to end those confrontations. So, when his butt was on the line, Bruce Lee tended to use the techniques that were already part of his neuromuscular system when he returned to the United States in 1959.

And thats a fact (lol sorry bro couldnt resist!).

[Justthefacts]

Pak Sao and Hip

FC: I hear it all the time, LOL. Bruce Lee and his students were/are living proof that trapping works. A few months before his death, Lee told Wing Chun brother Hawkins Cheung that the foundation of JKD was "Pak Sao and hip." Bruce Lee's trapping techniques were not passive nor were they the "patty-cake" traps taught by some JKD instructors. Bruce Lee employed the pak sao and the lan sao to completely shut his opponent(s) down.

[fire cobra]

FC: I hear it all the time, LOL. Bruce Lee and his students were/are living proof that trapping works. A few months before his death, Lee told Wing Chun brother Hawkins Cheung that the foundation of JKD was "Pak Sao and hip." Bruce Lee's trapping techniques were not passive nor were they the "patty-cake" traps taught by some JKD instructors. Bruce Lee employed the pak sao and the lan sao to completely shut his opponent(s) down.

I bet you do bro.

Nice info thanks.

[Justthefacts]

Steve Golden

Sifu Steve Golden was a black belt under Ed Parker in the mid-60's and he joined Bruce Lee's Chinatown school in 1967. Golden told an interviewer about a time when he was working out with Bruce Lee in the bar of a closed Chinese restaurant. Golden states, "We were doing Chi Sao and I couldn't hit him. I told him that you can't beat a man at his own game. He looked at me and said, "That's not my game." I asked him what was. He said, "Try and stop me." We squared off as though we were going to fight. I was already a black belt in Kenpo and I lasted two seconds. He had both of my arms TRAPPED against my body while I was bent over backwards on a piano and he had his fingers in my eyes. Then he looked at me and said, "That's my game."

Translation: Bridge the gap, pak sao, then lan sao, followed by a finger jab.

What do ya know, trapping works!

[Wi-Stickboxer]

Sifu Steve Golden was a black belt under Ed Parker in the mid-60's and he joined Bruce Lee's Chinatown school in 1967. Golden told an interviewer about a time when he was working out with Bruce Lee in the bar of a closed Chinese restaurant. Golden states, "We were doing Chi Sao and I couldn't hit him. I told him that you can't beat a man at his own game. He looked at me and said, "That's not my game." I asked him what was. He said, "Try and stop me." We squared off as though we were going to fight. I was already a black belt in Kenpo and I lasted two seconds. He had both of my arms TRAPPED against my body while I was bent over backwards on a piano and he had his fingers in my eyes. Then he looked at me and said, "That's my game."

Translation: Bridge the gap, pak sao, then lan sao, followed by a finger jab.

What do ya know, trapping works!

Do you have any more recent examples?

[John McNabney]

Steve Golden

Sifu Steve Golden was a black belt under Ed Parker in the mid-60's and he joined Bruce Lee's Chinatown school in 1967. Golden told an interviewer about a time when he was working out with Bruce Lee in the bar of a closed Chinese restaurant. Golden states, "We were doing Chi Sao and I couldn't hit him. I told him that you can't beat a man at his own game. He looked at me and said, "That's not my game." I asked him what was. He said, "Try and stop me." We squared off as though we were going to fight. I was already a black belt in Kenpo and I lasted two seconds. He had both of my arms TRAPPED against my body while I was bent over backwards on a piano and he had his fingers in my eyes. Then he looked at me and said, "That's my game."

Translation: Bridge the gap, pak sao, then lan sao, followed by a finger jab.

What do ya know, trapping works!

Steve Golden has told me this personally among other things....Thanks for sharing it again.... Steve & his lovely wife are some kool human beings.... My wife and I get along great with them... He's been to my school and we where just out to house for dinner in August.... They showed us around.... Bruce Lee would be proud of the way he handles things...


Keep "IT" Real,
John McNabney

[Justthefacts]

2nd Generation

WS: All you need to do is ask a few high-profile 2nd Generation JKD instructors if trapping works in REAL LIFE situations. I would bet the house that the answer would be an unqualified YES. Sifu's Paul Vunak and Lamar Davis have used trapping techniques to their advantage in several street fights. Just a few years ago, Sifu Davis used a basic trapping technique to end a confrontation at a nightclub in Alabama. Several reliable witnesses were present during this encounter. Sifu Davis apparantly used a lan sao (e.g., bar arm) to pin his 300 pound opponent against a wall and the fight ended a few seconds later. Trapping is like any other fighting technique. When used properly under certain circumstances, trapping will save your butt.

[NaSZ]

I'm going to quote a message I got from one of my Conversation with a great person, in my own words...

"Depends what opponent you put in front of you, anything can work on someone who isn't very good."

Trapping can work great, but just as the quote above says, it really depends on the person in front of you. People are different.
Besides you wouldn't or shouldn't use the same fighting strategies on everyone...

Yes this is very true...but im talking about good fighters, a good opponent.
Can you take them with trapping or is it just worthless??
No Im training quite a while and really the more I train the less I believe in trapping. Its really just punching, kicking (most low) and grappling...maybe one pak sao or lap sao would work, but doing all those trapping moves is just not realistic.
Offcourse for every (good) opponent is a different strategy.
And answering you about fighting somebody who is not a good fighter...well then I wouldnt trap but do the same as I do against a good fighter, try to knock him down in the most efficient way.

But maybe im just a no good trapper..but still I never saw one fight (JKDer) trap in a real fight...only in class when he says if you do this i will do that..well thats for me trying to decieve your students.

[Justthefacts]

Good Opponents

NASZ: You could make the argument that Chuck Norris was the best point fighter of the 1960's. He was a world class martial artist, yet when he and Bruce Lee sparred at Lee's home in Culver City, which of the 3 core arts of JKD do you think gave Norris the most problems? According to those present (e.g., Dan Inosanto) at some of those sparring sessions, Bruce Lee's ability to close the gap and TRAP gave Norris fits. Many of Bruce Lee's students were legitimate tough guys and during sparring sessions, once Bruce got into trapping range, his students knew that the ballgame was over. James DeMile, Bob Baker, Larry Hartsell, Leo Fong, Dan Lee, Ed Hart and others saw the effectiveness of trapping first-hand. It's important to remember that Bruce Lee's trapping philosophy was to fire the lead hand BEFORE trapping with the rear hand. Bruce always thought about hitting first. There will be times, however, when there is an obstruction on the line. You then have two choices. You either go around the obstruction or you trap.

[Tim Mousel]

Whether trapping works or not I don't think an effective argument can be made by saying it works because Bruce Lee did it. That's like saying track coaches should train their sprinters to run the last 20 meters of the 100m with their arms stretched out to thier sides while looking around. "That's an effective sprinting technique because Usain Bolt shattered the world record while doing it, therefore it must work for everyone".

[John McNabney]

Tim..... Right On! I think the problem is define trapping? They are many, many ways to trap and some are not made by contact as well



Keep "IT" Real,

[Justthefacts]

Examples

Tim: As I mentioned on the prior page of this thread, many 2nd and 3rd Generation JKD instructors have used trapping in REAL LIFE confrontations. Jeremy Lynch, Richie Carrion, Lamar Davis, Paul Vunak, Dwight Woods, Dave Carnell, the list goes on and on. Bruce Lee's students proved that trapping works. Bob Bremer, James DeMile, Jesse Glover, Leroy Garcia, Patrick Strong, Bob Baker, Al Novak, James Lee, Larry Hartsell all were/are proponents of trapping. It is simply one of the tools used in JKD. Nothing more, nothing less. If Bruce Lee thought that trapping wasn't functional, why include it as one of his 5 ways of ATTACK? It's interesting how some people can recognize Bruce Lee's genius, yet ignore some of the techniques that he relied upon to save his butt.

[Tim Mousel]

Just to restate again, my argument is about complex trapping sequences and not a simple pak or lop. Even if you can name a handful of martial artists that can do complex trapping they're the exception and not the rule. If I could look into a crystal ball and see that one of my students would be in a serious fight 6 months from now, the last thing I would teach him would be complex trapping. It's just too improbable that the AVERAGE martial artist could successfully do it.

[Guest]

Just to restate again, my argument is about complex trapping sequences and not a simple pak or lop. Even if you can name a handful of martial artists that can do complex trapping they're the exception and not the rule. If I could look into a crystal ball and see that one of my students would be in a serious fight 6 months from now, the last thing I would teach him would be complex trapping. It's just too improbable that the AVERAGE martial artist could successfully do it.

Bravo.

Its such a fundamentally crucial point. Our role as instructors is to provide the right training for the person stood in front of us, who have come to learn how to defend themselves. That person isn't interested in what a handful of exceptional people may or may not have done once, according to anecdotal testimony. They care about what they can achieve within the balance of a normal life. In that respect, our first responsibility is to be honest and realistic.

[Justthefacts]

Kicking Ass

Tim: My post was in response to the following comment...

Whether trapping works or not I don't think an effective argument can be made by saying it works because Bruce Lee did it.

You made no distinction between simple and compound trapping. In addition, some posters in this thread seem to lump the two together and then demand proof that trapping works. When multiple examples are provided, the examples are either ignored or a distinction is suddenly drawn between functional and non-functional trapping techniques. At its base level, I would argue that Bruce Lee's students were able to use trapping to kick ass, 2nd Generation JKD instructors have used trapping to kick ass, and 3rd Generation JKD instructors have used trapping to kick ass. I've posted the following link on another thread, but I think it deserves a 2nd look.

BRUCE LEE UNDERESTIMATED