Why do sports TKD participants don't keep hands up?

[Ironfist1989]

We will still remain true to the art. You have to ask yourself what does that really mean however, especially with TKD. It has gone through more changes than any other Martial Art form.

This brings to mind the time I visited Moscow, Russia in 1997. All of the blackbelts that I trained with at the school (run by a Master Shin) had started out in Shotokan and held blackbelts in both. Master Shin had started in Shotokan and had a 4th degree in it when Glasnost hit and TKD was introduced. They switched over but still attended open Karate tournements and were able to effectively compete in a few different styles with different rules.

Yeah theres a new Shotokan class opened near me with none other than Sensi Kanazawa who runs the course which i thought i would check out he's also doing a seminar aswell but its for practioners of Shotokan Karate

[guilhas]

About Tkd hands, just want to say here in Portugal, in Songahm style, we use hands up, allways! we don´t use chest protection, and in classes instrutors are allways remembering us about hands up.

[GranFire]

When I read the title the first thing I thougt was *They haven't been kicked in the head yet*

Being one of the older students in our school we constantly spar with kids less than half our age...and they are good.

I have been punched in the nose (twice, once hard enough to make my eyes water) and kicked in the nose and to the side of the head (twice) I amd trying hard to keep my hands up...

ITA style tournament rules give you 2 points for a flat footed kick to the head, three for a jumpkick...in a race to five points that saves a lot of valuable time...

(We had considered putting bengay under the arms of the youngsters...like in that basketball movie with Martin Lawrence, I think... )

[Maxx]

Until recently, I had thought that it was strictly a World Taekwondo Federation thing... keeping the hands down and leaving the head unprotected. Recently, however, I have been looking at a lot of the ITF tournament clips at youtube and google and you see a similar problem. Most of the fighters are keeping a low guard, but at least the hands tend to come up when fighters close to punching range.

I see two separate evolutions taking place: The WTF simply does not allow the head to become a target for hand strikes so fighters in that group tend to keep the hands relaxed in order to conserve energy and not to fatigue the shoulders.

The ITF on the other hand seems to be heading in the same direction but for different reasons. As the kicking quality becomes better and fighters learn to keep their opponent at bay with their kicks, they tend to become complacent about their guard. Generally the guard will come up when an oppenent gets though past the kicks, but by that time it's too late. A good example of the above can be seen in the following clip. Hands almost don't come into play at all during these fights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJINTL2dGRA

[npk9]

Let me pose a different question then.
Outside of the federations (because there are rules to abide by) - does your school (I assume that the overall TKD art does) address sweeps. Since there are high kicks - I would naturally assume that there would be sweeps to counter this.

[GranFire]

Let me pose a different question then.
Outside of the federations (because there are rules to abide by) - does your school (I assume that the overall TKD art does) address sweeps. Since there are high kicks - I would naturally assume that there would be sweeps to counter this.

ITA allows for kicks to the thigh for Black Belts only.

But you have to use your back leg anf hit the frontleg, outside only.

If your opponent moves his/her leg and you hit it, it's a strike...if you use your frontleg to kick, it's a strike...(but if you can shuffle your feet and kick, it can be a sweet manouver! )

[whitebelt]

Yeah theres a new Shotokan class opened near me with none other than Sensi Kanazawa who runs the course which i thought i would check out he's also doing a seminar aswell but its for practioners of Shotokan Karate

Why are you talking about japanese shotokan in the korean forum. Did I miss something?

[WildWest.]

If you don't train to be wary of your chin, in a self defense situation, or a sport fight against someone who's trained to defend themselves better, you will end up on your ass.

I've sparred against TKD guys at Hapkido and MT, they get punched in the head everytime. I'm not critisizing TKD for you sensitive types, just the way some of them train.

[GranFire]

If you don't train to be wary of your chin, in a self defense situation, or a sport fight against someone who's trained to defend themselves better, you will end up on your ass.

I've sparred against TKD guys at Hapkido and MT, they get punched in the head everytime. I'm not critisizing TKD for you sensitive types, just the way some of them train.

Quiet true indeed!

Seems to be a gentlemen's agreement these days...I don't wallop you in the head so you can't hit me in the noggin, thus we both can drop our hands...


Personlay, I love to exploid the weakness of my counterpart...and I can kick high...

[Piston]

I'm always fishing for a headshot, one of my favourite tactics is to dummy or strike in the middle, and then as their guard goes down to block I hook kick or turning kick with the same foot. Although I've sparred with the same people in class far too log for them to fall for that any more.

[Maxx]

The rules are a lot different today then they were 30-40 years ago. I used to pour over all of the old ITF books that were available... various versions of General Choi's large book and, or course, the encyclopedia set that came out a while back. From the stories that I've heard sweeps and kicks to the leg were quite legal for a while, but that was a long time ago. I cam across rules for competition in one of the books and it stipulated that during sparring competition that the knee joint was in fact a viable target. I tend to think that sweeps and takedowns were also legal for a while because during the 70s they were a large part of the curriculum and someone was always getting dumped during sparring.

I tend to thing that things are just a lot more unified now than they were then and there was probably a growing urgency for safety in practice.

[dodgeduckdodge]

First, there are 17 different types of Taekwondo sparring. One type of Taekwondo sparring, known as "Shihap Kyorugi" is the type you see in the Olympic circuit. This type scores heavy on full force kicking, and little on punching. Punching in this type is also limited to the body. In addition the players are trainned intensely to move away and avoid the kicking skill. Their timing is such that movement is all they usually need to evade kicking attack.

In other types of Taekwondo sparring, the hands are usually in a higher position.

Best Regards,

Alcohol

[Boss* up]

In our class if we didn't keep our hands up we would get smacked (lol).I've done it a couple of times but hey everybody has had there share, but I got enough of that.I keep my hands up now, you will barley see me with my ready guard down.

[dodgeduckdodge]

i think that tkd people who go to alot of tournamenst should read my post: http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...946#post241946. it may not be the most pwerful ways of kicking but it will win you more rounds than keeping your hands down and using them for momentum.

I always recommend sparring with an elite international level Olympic style Taekwondo competitor. This way you will learn the real value of hands down vs handss up sparring. Until you have done so, you simply just-don't-know.

Alcohol

[dodgeduckdodge]

i think that tkd people who go to alot of tournamenst should read my post: http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...946#post241946. it may not be the most pwerful ways of kicking but it will win you more rounds than keeping your hands down and using them for momentum.

I read your post, and I completely agree about the arm swing, but I will tell you that it IS the most powerful and has nothing to do with hands down or up.

Alcohol