ITF WTF should be TOGETHOR!!who agrees??

[dodgeduckdodge]

ITF and WTF can not merge. The IOC already told the ITF if it wanted to be involved in Olympic level events of Taekwondo, it should join the WTF. I cna scan the announcement for anyone wanting to see it.

What many of you fail to realize is that the WTF is nothing more than a tournament organizing committee. Don't confuse the WTF with the Kukkiwon which is the center of the martial art of Taekwondo for the world, not the WTF, and the WTF is not located in the Kukkiwon, they are in seperate location in different areas of Seoul. They have very different functions. The WTF, only organizes competitions, that include sparring, and as of 2006, forms (Poomsae).

The Kukkiwon trains instructors and issues Dan/Poom certificates. The WTF does not issue certificates.

The WTF only recognizes Kukkiwon as the sole authority on what Taekwondo is, or is not.

As for the ITF, it was a spilt off of the 6th kwan to form, the Oh Do Kwan. The Oh Do Kwan was formed around 1954 by CHOI, Hong Hi, NAM, Tae Hi and HAN, Cha Kyo. Later, Choi was kicked out of his own Kwan and striped of his honorary 4th Dan (issued by SON, Duk Song). This was announced in a new paper article ran in the main Seoul News paper.

Choi was angry, as he was really just a very junior martial artist and was only recognized as one by the rest of the kwans. He left Korea and moved to Canada, taking his Oh Do Kwan splinter, the ITF with him as it was his only means of financial support.

If you know the history of Taekwono, you will know that ALL the Kwans, including the Oh Do Kwan decided to merge and form the "National Technique Center" in 1972. The Oh Do Kwan, along with the other Kwans ultimately created a standard of training that still exist today and is based at the Kukkiwon.

The WTF was created in 1973, and it's purpose was to organize competitions world wide, nothing else.

So, there we have it. The WTF is a tournament committee and can not "merge" with any organization.

If you think the Kukkiwon would ever go backwards and adopt any Kwan's curriculum, much less a spilt off of the Oh Do Kwan of 1964 (ITF), it will never happen.

When you see that Chang Ung is involved in talks with the WTF, they are setting the stage for North Korea to have it's own WTF Member National Association (MNA) of the WTF. North Korea has applied for MNA status with the WTF, and it will become a member of the WTF in 2007, just in time for the North Korean Taekwondo Team to compete in the Asian Olympic Qualifier for the 2008 Olympic Summer Games to be held in Bejing. This will effectively absorb ITF Austria/North Korea into the WTF, not a merger. The North Korean Taekwondo Team is already attending regular training sessions at the Kukkiwon. Kukkiwon is issuing Kukkiwon Dan to North Korean Taekwondo Dan holders as I type this.

In 2007, North Korea will become the 182nd MNA of the WTF. Gen. Choi must be rolling over in his North Korean grave............

Best Regards,

Alcohol

[ITFDespoja]

so u sayin that they are slowy tryin to get rid of the ITF. this is so stupid. by settin up wtf clubs in NTH KOREA. there is a majority of ITF CLUBS in nth korea. nth korea is all ITF. how can u say Gerneral choi was a junior martial artist HE IS a general of the army? he is 1 that gave the name TAEKWONDO.

Still i think this is stupid. ITF and WTF should be as 1, and thats it. maybe when u and i are grandfathers it will happen.

[Fluffy]

Alcohol,

no names, I'm not going to post those without permission.

But in the big circle, they are no-names. No one in the Olympics, no WTF National chps....much like me - no one special.

I'm not hiding anything, or telling a fib. It's just not good etiquette to post names like that.

[dodgeduckdodge]

so u sayin that they are slowy tryin to get rid of the ITF. this is so stupid. by settin up wtf clubs in NTH KOREA. there is a majority of ITF CLUBS in nth korea. nth korea is all ITF. how can u say Gerneral choi was a junior martial artist HE IS a general of the army? he is 1 that gave the name TAEKWONDO.

Still i think this is stupid. ITF and WTF should be as 1, and thats it. maybe when u and i are grandfathers it will happen.

The facts speak for themselves. I know, the truth can suck. However, look at the ITF, it has been shrinking for over 2 decades, and finally it has shattered into 3 pieces, causing an even larger exodus.

General Choi was not only a junior marital artist, he was a junior General as well.

The fact is that:
-CHOI, Hong Hi, never personally produced a single martial arts student while he was in South Korea, as he was a student himself. NAM, Tae Hi and HAN, Cha Kyo were his real teachers.

- NAM, Tae Hi was the senior Chung Do Kwan (founded 1944) student of Won Kuk Lee and the martial arts brains behind the Oh Do Kwan (founded 1954)

- Choi never trained karate in Japan, even though he claims to have learned Karate from a man named "Kim". (did you forget your instructors name? that is a cardinal sin in Confucious Korea)

- Choi never had a Dan rank from any Karate or Taekwondo teachers. He did receive an honorary 4th Dan from Chung Do Kwan, but was publicly striped of it.

- The 5 Original Main Kwan's all existed 10 years before Choi, Nam and Han founded the Oh Do Kwan.

- Choi was very junior to all the Kwan founders, and the Kwan senior students

- Yong Bok Lee, the Grandmaster of the Korea Taekkyon Association states that Choi never practiced Taekkyon, and that Han Ill Dong never exsisted.
Taekkyon was a practice that occured around Seoul, not in the areas currently known as North Korea.

Don't believe the proaganda that Choi spewed his hole life. He was a Master, of propaganda. Look at how he even let the ITF members down by turning it over to North Korean government official, Chang Ung, without a vote!

Best Regards,

Alcohol

[dodgeduckdodge]

Alcohol,

no names, I'm not going to post those without permission.

But in the big circle, they are no-names. No one in the Olympics, no WTF National chps....much like me - no one special.

I'm not hiding anything, or telling a fib. It's just not good etiquette to post names like that.

I understand, so you never really had any experience at all in competiting in WTF National events.

Alcohol
Master-Instructor (never signed as "Master Alcohol")

[Boss* up]

I agree but It's probably not gonna happen.I mean they are gonna stay sepreate. My master trains under both and it has it's differences but mostly similar.I wish also.... I just basically stick with ITF Tae kwon do but it would be interesting for them to combine because I think we would only gain from that experience.

[dodgeduckdodge]

I agree but It's probably not gonna happen.I mean they are gonna stay sepreate. My master trains under both and it has it's differences but mostly similar.I wish also.... I just basically stick with ITF Tae kwon do but it would be interesting for them to combine because I think we would only gain from that experience.

I agree, they will remain seperate.

Your instructor is not the only one who trains in more than one type. Others also practice older Kwan styles along with the modern Kukkiwon methods. Some examples besides your own would be groups that may practice the older Kwan and Kukkiwon methods and , or even a slight variation like practicing Palgwe Poomsae and Taegeuk Poomsae.

Alcohol

[Boss* up]

I agree, they will remain seperate.

Your instructor is not the only one who trains in more than one type. Others also practice older Kwan styles along with the modern Kukkiwon methods. Some examples besides your own would be groups that may practice the older Kwan and Kukkiwon methods and , or even a slight variation like practicing Palgwe Poomsae and Taegeuk Poomsae.

Alcohol

That is true

[lindz]

here's my views on this...no one can even think able uniting ift with wtf until itf is united in itself. when i was training with itf there were a lot of scandals with it due to money.
also have any of you who hate wtf so much even have tried it? i mean for more than a day. there are a lot of good techneques. before you go to insult wtf, you must try it. you have no right to do so.
If itf was ever united, which i do wish would happen, then maybe they could unite with wtf...unfortunally there is a huge lack of trust between the two styles(when i first started my instructor would talk trash about wtf all the time)...so i recommend that you try to build the trust as instructors, so that this could become true.
of course how could itf and wtf solve their differnces? which uniform stays? (im rooting for the itf ones...they are so much more comfy...but with a black lapel) what would the name for this combined style be(it couldn't be just tkd, there are other styles) what style sparring is done in the olympics? what pattern/forms set would be used? who would be in charge? would the person in charge be a master in tkd, like itfs presidents, or would they not have experience, like wtfs?
itf and wtf even have different philosophies!
last spring when i switch, i thought a lot about how this two styles could be united. its very depressing, because my black belt in itf wasn't recognized by my new school, and i have to retest, which i dont mind. what bothers me is how people cant work together.
i know that some people dont want the two tkds to be united, but itf is in a way wtfs brother, and if itf goes, there are a lot of people that will be upset, including me. itf is a great style, and it is falling apart(at least from my experience it is...i dont know how it is in australia or even in other parts of the us)

[ITFDespoja]

Yeah i hate sayin this but it is slowy falling apart. its sad cous we have just as much talent in the ITF . We just recently send in a ITF team to compete in the WTF rules sparing i was part of that team 10/12 ppl came 1st!!. im not sayin that a ITF student is always better than a WTF student. im trying to say that there is some great talented instructors with the ITF that have trainin experience with General Choi or his son.

im hoping to get my WTF black too. but ill be always loyal to my ITF Subumnim.

Give it time they will combine 1day. maybe when my lil 1 is training

[lindz]

how would you goabout uniting ITF?
im just wondering...
and congrates on getting your wtf black belt. im testing for mine in december. remembering all the forms is so hard!
at least it is for me.

[ITFDespoja]

Yeah i hate the patterns too. i still struggle with the ITF patterns.

i have no idea about how u can reunite them. For me im goin to SouthKorea Next year and train. Im holdin my work and studies. I wanna do this before i get married and before i die.

[lindz]

you're really looking forward to the day you start a family, huh? ur only 22, take ur time, trust me(advice from a 17 yo).
As i said in one of my posts, trust is missing between itf and wtf. to build this tourneys and other such needs to happen between the two.
have you even started to learn the wtf forms yet?
before you think that you are having trouble with tae gyo, wait till you learn the other ones.
i had so much trouble learning tae go and choong moo. dont even get me started on the black belt forms...
my favorite patterns were hwarang, choongmoo, and wan hyo. what about you?

[13ang]

I dont want anything to do with olympic competition, it is a watered down form of martial arts. Even the boards break in WTF style are paper thin. Its all about fast, flashy moves.

There is a reason all the taekwondo MMA fighters come from ITF.

[lindz]

OH SNAP!!!! that was HARSH!!!!! (about to make a big deal over nothing...)
yeah, fyi the boards I have broken in WTF are the same as those in ITF. the little tots kick the paper thin boards. and i think that wtf might use paper for the fancy spin kicks...but idk...
im sorry but what is MMA mean? I haven't heard of it...
itf wants to be part of the olympics, just a fyi.
that is one of their goals.
and have you even trained WTF?
try reading my first post, okay?
can you even call yourself a true tkdist if you havent tried all the different styles of tkd? yet you rip on WTF like that...ITF is good, yes, and so is WTF.