now u tell me, Differences With ITF and WTF

[dodgeduckdodge]

look at the end of the day we have differant org and defferant patterns defferant ppl running the show and so on... there is nathing that they do is not new to me.. such as kicks arials what eva.. if my subumnim seen a new technique we can analyse it and pick it up very QUICK. Vice VERSER . i love all kicks. and i practise all the same kicks as the wtf. cous i train together with talented WTF talented students. the only they dont emphasize is the power. ITF concentrates alot on the sine wave. But as i said we learn from each other.thats i why i made a pervoius thread sayin ITF and WTF should be 1. Cous its a shame its not as 1. Too many fucken Egos out there and offcourse MONEY! we are not defferant all!! like i said its just Taekwondo. i yous too think that i have an edge over WTF students cous ITF is more Hardcore than WTF. But ive meet alot of Wtf students and they have changed the way i think about things. cant just be a lil fish in a small pond. they do things we dont do. and so on. so why not learn them!. And as i said both parties and pick it up very quick. Its just taekwondo.

As for ego's and money, Did Gen. Who made sure he was the best known figure in Taekwondo? The other Kwan founders are very obscure to most practitioners. Who had complete access to the ITF Corporate bank accounts, as the ITF.

You have many men in Korea who came together, keeping quite about themselves and promoted Taekwondo. The most senior men in Taekwondo

And of these senior members, none claimed to be the founder of Taekwondo!

[Damian Mavis]

Alcohol, you are quite obviously a biased WTF lover and ITF hater. You would have better luck getting your opinions to be accepted if you weren't so obviously hostile.

I have trained BOTH systems and visited many schools. It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that has done both that ITF is more traditional and most WTF schools do spend much more time preparing for tournaments and sport. There are schools in both camps that are exceptions to the rule but the majority follow the trend I just mentioned.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[ITFDespoja]

Well said Damian Mavis well said!!. i wasnt impressed with some of the comments dodgeduckdodge made about general choi in the prevoius threads. When Gen Choi left korea to canada. the south korean goverment wanted to make a tkd that was ANTI General choi. Even tryed killin him and his son. 6 ppl tryed killin his son, but funny enough his son put them all in hospital. dodgeduckdodge knows whats goin on now, he is a Wtf lover/ good bloke
Alot was said about the General choi. Koreas newspapers or whateva! u need to get the real information from the source My Sabum nim was very very lucky to do seminars with him and train with him, when he came down to Australia. he had the chance to talk to general choi discussing about his life story.. my Sabum nim would say to me ppl here in australia thought it looked a like mafia sein a lil asain man with 10 black belt instructors with siuts following him were ever he went. its was like that weneva GEN choi came down here when he was alive. Its still the same when Gen choi's son Choi Jung Hwa would come down here in Australia. Especially when they went somewhere to eat in a resturant. the instructors would open the door for him, pore a class of water for him, stand next to him lookin like body guard. ppl here in australia are like. WHAT the fucks goin on here mate??? the looks on there faces would be priceless

[Damian Mavis]

Heh the scene you are describing would not be comprehended by many WTF people...it's about loyalty and respect and belief in your leader born from the ROOTS of traditional martial arts.... in fact that story will probably make them a little angry and judge us further since it's such a foreign concept.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[ITFDespoja]

But like you said its about loyalty and respect to our senoirs. so are you seroius its not worth goin to south korea? have u trained in Nth korean Damian??

[Damian Mavis]

No I never trained in North Korea, just heard how horrible it was there. I responded in the other thread. My advice was to visit Korea but also go to Japan and some other Asian countries.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[ITFDespoja]

Damain have u ever meet Gen choi? or either his son? there is plenty of tournaments comin up here in Aust u should come down. Which ITF group are u with?

[Damian Mavis]

Unfortunately I never met General Choi before he died. I am from Ottawa Canada so I have had the opportunity to meet his son Grandmaster Choi several times, in fact GM Choi conducted my 4th degree test. I am with the ITF under GM Choi. I'd love to visit Australia to train and compete..... but first I need to go back to Canada..... and Japan heh. I've been so busy with my new school in Bangkok that I havent gone home in a long time and I used to visit Japan a few times a year but.... like I said too busy. It's my goal to be successful enough to just go and visit schools in other countries any time I want, right now I'm not at the point....

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[ITFDespoja]

Nice so ur under GM choi, So is my club. How is ITF goin on Thailand at the moment, is it goin well? when ppl think of tkd what do they think there? ITF or WTF? How does it compete with mauyThai. Cous like i said b4 u know what the Mauythai attutide is.. WE ARE MOST Deadly! i have alot of professional mauythai friends. But anyway thats not the point. That would be the dream though. visit schools anytime u want in all countries.

[Damian Mavis]

ITF in Thailand used to be just ME. Now Master Rounthwaite from the Master Tran group has started a class at an International school where he works. My school is going well, I have a huge 350 sq meter professional studio that costs a fortune to operate.... but we are doing ok, I hope soon to be doing more than just ok. We also offer stunt and movie action classes since I work in show business anyway.

In Thailand there is only one TKD, that is the WTF, they have thousands of schools. I was the first to introduce ITF a couple of years ago and we are slowly growing heh. Strangley enough most of my students are Japanese though....

TKD does NOT compete with Muay Thai. Muay Thai is for poor people and EVERY family would much prefer to be involved with TKD. That is because here a child only does muay thai if his family is so poor they cant even afford to feed him so they send him to a muay thai camp to be taken care of and fight for a living starting at about 12. I'm generalising a bit but you get the point. TKD is seen as a little bit elite and is trendy and is popular amongst the middle to upper caste.

It's not like back home where mostly young men (alot of meatheads in the group unfortunately) who want to do a macho part time activity are interested in muay thai. Here, if youre a fighter its because youre really poor. And although they do offer a few watered down muay thai classes at some health clubs, most Thai people with any kind of money want nothing to do with muay thai except maybe to bet on. It's a matter of image, which is really important in Asia. If they were going to join a martial art it would be more along the lines of something like TKD, Karate, Judo. But your average person here is more likely to join cardio kick.

Just so you dont get the wrong idea, I've been training muay thai for almost 6 years and love it very much, I even fought in the ring here. It's great. But I love several martial arts and try to train in everything I can get my hands on. But the attitude in Thailand, since you asked, is that muay thai is not a popular activity for anyone really. You either do it as a job because you couldnt get a job doing anything else or you dont do it at all.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[dodgeduckdodge]

Alcohol, you are quite obviously a biased WTF lover and ITF hater. You would have better luck getting your opinions to be accepted if you weren't so obviously hostile.

I have trained BOTH systems and visited many schools. It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that has done both that ITF is more traditional and most WTF schools do spend much more time preparing for tournaments and sport. There are schools in both camps that are exceptions to the rule but the majority follow the trend I just mentioned.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

Damian, I have not been affiliated with the WTF since 2001. I never renewed my USA Taekwondo membership. I practiced several methods of Korean martial arts. Tang Soo Do, ITF, Hapkido, Taekkyon, Jidokwan Taekwondo of course the Kukkiwon method. I don't hate any of them. I do attempt to state the truth, and I know, it can sound like hate to those who believe the lies.

How is ITF training traditional? Is it say, "1955 traditional" as when the curriculum contained the Shotokan Katas and was a complete copy of it's roots, the Chung Do Kwan? Or maybe "1965 traditional", when the curriculum contained both the Shotokan Katas and NAM, Tae Hi's newly created Chang Hon Hyungs? Of course, all this was PRE-sine wave. Hummmm, is the sine wave traditional? Fill me in, I really want to know.

Alcohol

[dodgeduckdodge]

ITF in Thailand used to be just ME. Now Master Rounthwaite from the Master Tran group has started a class at an International school where he works. My school is going well, I have a huge 350 sq meter professional studio that costs a fortune to operate.... but we are doing ok, I hope soon to be doing more than just ok. We also offer stunt and movie action classes since I work in show business anyway.

In Thailand there is only one TKD, that is the WTF, they have thousands of schools. I was the first to introduce ITF a couple of years ago and we are slowly growing heh. Strangley enough most of my students are Japanese though....

TKD does NOT compete with Muay Thai. Muay Thai is for poor people and EVERY family would much prefer to be involved with TKD. That is because here a child only does muay thai if his family is so poor they cant even afford to feed him so they send him to a muay thai camp to be taken care of and fight for a living starting at about 12. I'm generalising a bit but you get the point. TKD is seen as a little bit elite and is trendy and is popular amongst the middle to upper caste.

It's not like back home where mostly young men (alot of meatheads in the group unfortunately) who want to do a macho part time activity are interested in muay thai. Here, if youre a fighter its because youre really poor. And although they do offer a few watered down muay thai classes at some health clubs, most Thai people with any kind of money want nothing to do with muay thai except maybe to bet on. It's a matter of image, which is really important in Asia. If they were going to join a martial art it would be more along the lines of something like TKD, Karate, Judo. But your average person here is more likely to join cardio kick.

Just so you dont get the wrong idea, I've been training muay thai for almost 6 years and love it very much, I even fought in the ring here. It's great. But I love several martial arts and try to train in everything I can get my hands on. But the attitude in Thailand, since you asked, is that muay thai is not a popular activity for anyone really. You either do it as a job because you couldnt get a job doing anything else or you dont do it at all.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

I never knew that about Muay Thai. It sounds a lot like Taekwondo in South American, Africa and some Asian nations, where you fight to get in the team, and if you do, your set with food, medical, housing and respect. Even in some cases, good money if you win. Martial arts for North American and Europe, and the few privledged nations, are more recreation, even for it's elite fighters.

Alcohol

[lindz]

Hi everyone!
okay, I did itf for five years, and it was fun, but i recently switched to wtf.
the differences...someone already said the major one ift is traditional, wtf is sport.
wtf focuses on sparring, and itf on forms/patterns.
it is undebatable that itf totally DESTORYS wtf in forms/patterens. i love the wtf forms and everything, but itf's is just more pretty to watch.
however wtf could kick itfs butt in sparring. no questions asked. ive seen it happen.
itf believes that general choi found tkd, and thats it! but it wasnt just him...
itf does the chongi forms, and wtf does taeguk forms (and there are other forms as well, i forget the names)
there is the belief that itf is north korea and wtf is south...not really sure how true that is...
itf has far more kicks...cresent kicks, reverse cresent kicks, twist kicks, and so on, but wtf uses front kicks, turning kicks, and backkicks a lot, and have made them very powerful.
i learned a lot more self defense techniques in itf.
both are good styles, but the style of itf (united itf) wasn't very united, and it was falling apart.
wtf has less politics...well, compared to itf.

[ITFDespoja]

i do like some of the WTF patterns, and i do agree with u ITF patterns are alot more prettier. But with the sparring i dont agree with u. I train with WTF students all the time. Im not sayin that ITF beat every WTF student all the time, but a WTF student have week punches compared to an ITF Student. They are not used to punch ppl in the face or bein punched in the face. However its hard to say who is the better out of them, because we Both have defferant sparing rules. Im fortunate to spar with elite WTF students. When they are very close naturaly they tend to throw an Axe Kick comin from outside to in. by the time they have thrown the kick in that distance any1 could of just thrown and Jab cross uppercut. There is 1 thing I love about the WTF is their AERIAL kicks.
im tryin to learn the 540 kick. Im sure every1 knows what that is

[lindz]

Oh, yeah, sorry, youre right about the punches. it's hard when sparring in wtf to not punch to the face...and they are weaker. i wasn't thinking about the different sparring rules between itf and wtf.
i learned to do the axe/chop kick coming from the outside in from itf. there is a reason for it, i think it created more power or something, i forget. the axe/chop kick is a slow tecnique, and it seems that it is more reasonable to throw a jump back thrust kick/back kick while pushing away so more foot tecniques can be thrown.
i also never did uppercuts with itf.
taekwondo is a martial art that mostly contains of foot tecniques(cant spell, very sorry).
even though tkd means literally the art of the fist and foot...it is very well known for its kicks, not for its punching.
ive never heard of a 540 kick. what is that?