If i was to train in STH Korea.Will they accept my ITF BLACK BELT?

[dodgeduckdodge]

[QUOTE=Damian Mavis;243925]Dodge, I will respond to your many questions but it seems your answer to everything is that I am lying so what's the point?<<<<

Now now, don't get your undies all in a bunch. I never stated you are lying. If I come to the conclusion you are lying, I will flat out state it. I know it can be emotionally upsetting when someone challenges your most closely held beliefs, but try and stay focused on the subject matter and please don't look for a way out of answering my questions.

>>>If I say I have this or saw that why would you just straight out say "No you didnt". Inferring I'm a liar. Why would I bother?<<<<

You will bother because you teach your students to have perserverance. I assume you practice what you preach/teach. Then again, you know I have not called you a liar.

>>Take back your denail of my statements on MY life. (you telling me who my friends are or are not) and I will gladly respond.<<<

This is another thing about ITF, it is so Confucian oriented, that it blocks out the depth of Buddhist (and Taoist) thought. You misunderstood, or I mistated my thoughts, and that caused you to jump to emotional ultimatiums. In Buddhism it is understood that emotional obstructions such as frustration, anger, hate, fear, indecision etc. prevent us from seeing things for what they really are. Let me explain. What I meant was "Your friends, are not IN THE WTF" Why? no one is IN the WTF. Your friends, never were, nor could they ever be IN the WTF. Not unless your friends are the nations of Germany, Kuwait and Israel, as only Nations can be members of the WTF, never individuals.

If you, and your friends do not understand this simple concept, how can you understand what I am tell you?

Now hopefully, you can address each and everyone of my points, so we can have a good conversation.

>>>JUBAJI, I was serious, I said either you don't know what fun is or you know things about Korea I don't (that would be my guess). So please give me the room salon details. (sounds familiar to other Asian countries).

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand<<<

Kindest Regards,

Alcohol

[Damian Mavis]

No. Why would I discuss anything with an insulting jerk like you? Take a hint, either change the tone of your posts or you'll get nothing out of me. Either except my boundaries or don't. It's your decision of course, so if you want answers out of me be less insulting, in fact dont be insulting AT ALL. I really do want to answer.... but I won't be goaded and insulted into it. I want to do it out of the joy of discussion.

Oh, when I said "why would I bother" I didnt mean bother responding, I meant why would I bother lying.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[dodgeduckdodge]

No. Why would I discuss anything with an insulting jerk like you? Take a hint, either change the tone of your posts or you'll get nothing out of me. Either except my boundaries or don't. It's your decision of course, so if you want answers out of me be less insulting, in fact dont be insulting AT ALL. I really do want to answer.... but I won't be goaded and insulted into it. I want to do it out of the joy of discussion.

Oh, when I said "why would I bother" I didnt mean bother responding, I meant why would I bother lying.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

I am always surprised when I see a man like Damian get backed into a corner when he has no answers and he lashes out with personal attacks. Damian, it may seem like the easy way out to do so, however, it's not -- now your credibility seems lost and your not learning anything. Is this what you teach your students? I hope not! Personally, I don't think of you as a jerk or a moron, I feel you are stuggling with the question of what is true and what is false, in your own life. Like studens who are struggling to learn in class, but have trouble learning due to their own preconcieved notions blocking an open mind. Wheather you were lying, or telling the truth as you claim, I guess we will never know, now that you refuse to answer.

Kindest Regards,

Alcohol
WTF non-member

[jubaji]

Wheather you were lying, or telling the truth as you claim, I guess we will never know, now that you refuse to answer.

If anyone gets the benefit of the doubt here newbie, it's not you.

[dodgeduckdodge]

If anyone gets the benefit of the doubt here newbie, it's not you.

It's nice to see that at least you are loyal.

Best Regards,

Alcohol

[Damian Mavis]

Heh, it's not a personal attack if it's true as far as I'm concerned. I didn't just call you a name because I had nothing better to say, you WERE being insulting and acting like a jerk towards me. And of course you are still insulting me.....I have every right to refer to you in the manner that I did. Is it impossible for you to alter your aggressive insulting tone? Honestly talking to you at all is annoying as hell because you won't stop with the insults and allow us to move on to any real discussion. I told you, I have boundaries, I choose not to give in to what internet bullies want unless they will at least make an attempt to recognise my boundaries. God, real life is so much simpler, you can enforce your boundaires physically if need be.... the internet affords no such luxury. Of course it never comes to that because people are always much nicer in person and wouldn't dream of behaving in person the way they do online, they instinctively respect anothers boundaries. I have to wait around for you to act decent so we can talk. Guess I'll be holding my breath forever. For instance I'm dying to know what on earth you thought was so perverted in Japan?! Curiousity is killing me! Maybe I missed something interesting last time I was there.....

I will say this: You mistake me for a hard core fan of General Choi, I know you're just dying to tell me "your" truths because you think it will shatter my preconceived notions that make me feel secure and safe and superior.... hey man sorry to disappoint you, I gaurantee I know more negative things about him and TKD then you do. As an example you were asking me why he was in North Korea so much. I know damn well why.

I have a more open mind than any martial artist I know, I have trained in TKD, Karate, Kungfu, Shaolin Kenpo, Muay thai, submission grappling, BJJ, knife and stick fighting, swords, western boxing, hwarangdo, wushu, capoeria... I know I'm forgetting some, point is you cant train like I do and have too much loyalty and faith to one art. TKD is my expertise, the rest I am merely a student.

JUBAJI, send me a message describing the room salon, if it''s what I'm thinking of then you really need to come visit me in Bangkok..... nobody believes me until they come here and see with their own eyes, this place will blow you away.


Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[dodgeduckdodge]

Heh, it's not a personal attack if it's true as far as I'm concerned. I didn't just call you a name because I had nothing better to say, you WERE being insulting and acting like a jerk towards me. And of course you are still insulting me.....I have every right to refer to you in the manner that I did. Is it impossible for you to alter your aggressive insulting tone? Honestly talking to you at all is annoying as hell because you won't stop with the insults and allow us to move on to any real discussion. I told you, I have boundaries, I choose not to give in to what internet bullies want unless they will at least make an attempt to recognise my boundaries. God, real life is so much simpler, you can enforce your boundaires physically if need be.... the internet affords no such luxury. Of course it never comes to that because people are always much nicer in person and wouldn't dream of behaving in person the way they do online, they instinctively respect anothers boundaries. I have to wait around for you to act decent so we can talk. Guess I'll be holding my breath forever. For instance I'm dying to know what on earth you thought was so perverted in Japan?! Curiousity is killing me! Maybe I missed something interesting last time I was there.....

I will say this: You mistake me for a hard core fan of General Choi, I know you're just dying to tell me "your" truths because you think it will shatter my preconceived notions that make me feel secure and safe and superior.... hey man sorry to disappoint you, I gaurantee I know more negative things about him and TKD then you do. As an example you were asking me why he was in North Korea so much. I know damn well why.

I have a more open mind than any martial artist I know, I have trained in TKD, Karate, Kungfu, Shaolin Kenpo, Muay thai, submission grappling, BJJ, knife and stick fighting, swords, western boxing, hwarangdo, wushu, capoeria... I know I'm forgetting some, point is you cant train like I do and have too much loyalty and faith to one art. TKD is my expertise, the rest I am merely a student.

JUBAJI, send me a message describing the room salon, if it''s what I'm thinking of then you really need to come visit me in Bangkok..... nobody believes me until they come here and see with their own eyes, this place will blow you away.


Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

Damian, I agree you have every right affordable to free speech, including the right to refuse to answer my questions and use any distraction to avoid doing so. However, when you calm down from being annoyed as hell and wanting to get physical, I am ready for real discussion.

" God, real life is so much simpler, you can enforce your boundaires physically if need be.... the internet affords no such luxury"
Damian Mavis, in Defend.net, Oct. 29, 2006

" There is no debating my beliefs and values as they are within Allah's moral boundries, either you respect that boundry, or you are the enemy that must die by my hand"
Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab (1703–1792)
Founder of Wahabbism\Salafi, Islamic
sect of Al Qaeda founder Osama Bin Laden

" Honestly talking to you at all is annoying as hell"
Damian Mavis, in Defend.net, Oct. 29, 2006

"I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell"
Harry S Truman, in Look, Apr. 3, 1956
33rd president of US (1884 - 1972)

Kindest Regards,

Alcohol

[Damian Mavis]

That was supposed to make some sort of sense? But I did get the drift that it was supposed to be another insult heh.

If you are too proud to change the way you post I am not using distraction... that is you not me. Does this normally work? Insult someone until they talk to you?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[dodgeduckdodge]

That was supposed to make some sort of sense? But I did get the drift that it was supposed to be another insult heh.

If you are too proud to change the way you post I am not using distraction... that is you not me. Does this normally work? Insult someone until they talk to you?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

You tell me Damian.

"jerk like you?"
~ Damian Mavis, post, Oct. 2006

From your responses it seems to me you need more time to search for answers, however, whenever ~ if ever ~ you have your answers ready, please let me know.

Until then,

Very Truely Yours,

Alcohol

[Damian Mavis]

Listen, I think you are intelligent but that last quote just baffles me and confuses me more (so did your lst ones, they had no relationship to eachother and had no relevance to what was said). I respond that you are a jerk AFTER you insult me in many ways and somehow you think I was out of line or not justified or that you and I are the same? If someone hit me in the face and I mildly pushed them away in defence I would be equally as baffled when they acted hurt that I should have the audacity to defend myself in even a small way.....

Are you clutching at straws here to find a reason to keep arguing? Why? I mean this last post of yours is really strange, do you really see things that way? A mans not supposed to say anything or do anything AFTER being insulted? Wheres the logic in that? This is NOT an insult, I am asking you in all seriousness..... our conversation is starting to get more obscure and make less sense to me with every post.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

[dodgeduckdodge]

Listen, I think you are intelligent but that last quote just baffles me and confuses me more (so did your lst ones, they had no relationship to eachother and had no relevance to what was said). I respond that you are a jerk AFTER you insult me in many ways and somehow you think I was out of line or not justified or that you and I are the same? If someone hit me in the face and I mildly pushed them away in defence I would be equally as baffled when they acted hurt that I should have the audacity to defend myself in even a small way.....

Are you clutching at straws here to find a reason to keep arguing? Why? I mean this last post of yours is really strange, do you really see things that way? A mans not supposed to say anything or do anything AFTER being insulted? Wheres the logic in that? This is NOT an insult, I am asking you in all seriousness..... our conversation is starting to get more obscure and make less sense to me with every post.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

OK.

Alcohol

[ITFDespoja]

Can i ask you something? Alcohol what is ur Honest opinoin on ITF taekwondo?? Because no disrespect towards you.. u always seem to come up with something NEGATIVE about ITF?? i have NEVER ever heard u say a positive thing about ITF?? the only postive thing u have said is that u admired my loyalty... not tryin to be 1 sided here?? is there anything good that u could say about the ITF?? U are comin across as a WTF lover ITF hater.. plz tell me ur not like this???

[dodgeduckdodge]

Can i ask you something? Alcohol what is ur Honest opinoin on ITF taekwondo?? Because no disrespect towards you.. u always seem to come up with something NEGATIVE about ITF?? i have NEVER ever heard u say a positive thing about ITF?? the only postive thing u have said is that u admired my loyalty... not tryin to be 1 sided here?? is there anything good that u could say about the ITF?? U are comin across as a WTF lover ITF hater.. plz tell me ur not like this???

I come up with facts regarding Choi, and it sounds like hate to ITF loyalist.

As for the martial art itself, ITF was my first Taekwondo style (no sign wave). As for Chang Hon Hyungs (tuls) I learned up to Gae Baek, then the rest from books and video after I left college. All the people I met were good people, and I did enjoy the training or I would not have stuck around. Then I met a Korean who just arrived in the USA and after training with him a few times, I was extremely impressed and joined his school and stayed involved with Kukkiwon Taekwondo. Since that time I have had the opportunity to train all around the world, and with many persons from different nations and also learned about the history.

My opinions are about Choi Hong Hi's actions and message, not about the practitioners. My opinion on the style is that it is like older Taekwondo (Oh Do Kwan off-shoot) and that it has evolved in isolation, within it's own group.
Are you familiar with what the Oh Do Kwan was and is?

That is because I see Taekwondo as the effort of many men, from all the Kwan's, working in unity. Then I see guys like Choi Hong Hi, Hwang Kee of Soo Bahk Do, Haeng Ul Lee of ATA and a few select others as men of little experience and as people who could not work with the majority and went off on their own, isolating themselves from the litmus test of having their ideas tried and tested against the others.

I do feel thought that in many ways, ITF, and even the older Kwan styles that you still find mostly in the USA are very similar in many ways, even to the modern Taekwondo (Kukkiwon).

So I do not think the ITF system or it's practitioners suck, what sucks is that Choi caused a lot of trouble in Taekwondo.

Thats my opinion.

Best Regards,

Alcohol

[Piston]

The best Taekwondo training is in South Korea, that is if you know where to go. This is why over 180 nations send their national teams to South Korea to train. South Korea is the original home of Taekwondo.

Alcohol

Yes and England is the home of football (soccer to those silly Americans who refuse her majesty's sovreignity, it's only a matter of time rebel scum!), but when did England last win the world cup....?

[ITFDespoja]

Well the idea is for me that, i can have the oppintunity to train with all wtf and itf clubs once i get the Kukkiwon to give me my Black Belt.. and just learn taekwondo.

And do the splitz, its takin me forever