Boycott Tae Kwon Do, I Hate WTF TKD!!!

[Cain]

yup

that is pretty correct, the super-heavyweight (80kg -->) is where you have least technique and the most pure strenght! so most hard contact and knockdowns is here. If you see in the lighter weightclasses you will find much more speed and accurancy. They are far better at moving fast and avoiding getting hit. So you can say that the heavier weight you go in, the bigger chance you have to get hurt i don't know if this translates into other martial arts, but in TKD you have this, and since there often is a lack of boxing-traning, you find your self bitchslapping or something:P

[Lost Ronin]

Surprise, surprise!

Wow... I didn't know that TKD people beat each other up so much during training. I weigh about 215 lbs. and I sparred with a couple of the HW's from a nearby TKD dojang. The guys must have been point fighters because they could not hit... Most of them were hitting me with these little flippy kicks and their punches were like gorilla punches, very wide and uncontrolled. Not putting anybody down, I'm just saying, most of the exposure that I've had of TKD has been through these little wimps that don't really fight much, I guess I have been a little misguided as to what TKD people do. I like some of their kicks, they are really good for adding some unpredictability to your repertoire.

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Cain
You have to remember that WTF taekwondo (kukkiwon) is not the same as ALL taekwondo.. you have big differences between different federations and different nations on how things are done....

Yes, you are correct... Although, the Kukkiwon is the largest organization and overseas almost all Black Belt testing. Furthermore, many schools such as my former was a member of USTA, WTF and ITF... Hence, I wrote and called all of them, but got ignored.

Originally posted by Tom Yum
I agree with Cain. There are some salvagable techniques in TKD. It's cool that you were able to make a realistic TKD cirriculum. It just sucks that politics gave you a bad experience. Can you share with us some examples of your self defense based TKD? In another thread, we talked about the use of the TKD side kick.

I have also heard that TKD training in Korea is intense, but never saw it first hand. Anyone else?

I’ve never been to Korea, but I’ve seen video tapes and trained with fighters from Korea. They are generally faster, quicker and better at kicking... They also have a lot of power in their kicks. Unfortunately, they lack realisitic fighting principles. I found many of them didn’t care for good defensive postures... I wouldn’t say I was better than them, but I was able to hold my own in some cases.

Originally posted by platinum_angel
srry didn't read you whole thread

just because you didn't get your belt doesn't mean your a bad fighter. in my eyes you did the right thing.you don't need a belt to tell you you are good. you only need to know yourself.

don't get mad get even.

Thanks a lot... I plan to get even by writing to as many martial arts columnists as possible... I want the world to see that WTF only wants money... Heck, most of their members have probably never been in a REAL fight... TKD hasn’t been tested in a long time... It’s time...

Originally posted by Toudiyama
try winning from koreans in korea with korean referees/judges.

I saw the Olympics and various TKD World Championships and Korean judges definitely cheat...

Originally posted by Toudiyama
I find it strange that WTF which is the TKD style/org that got OG recognition doesn't take you serious

You’re telling me... I was really dissapointed... I pretty much emailed every personel in the WTF, USTA and Kukkiwon. Only one person responded after several emails and all he did was direct me to the Kukkiwon, who then told me “tough luck.”

Originally posted by Toudiyama
I have found that a lot of asian orgs ask rediculous high amounts of money just to be a member or to get a black belt exam and on top of that they almost demand anybody practicing the sport to be a member

Yes... That’s correct.

Originally posted by Toudiyama
the way your teacher has treated you shows that he didn't learn anything from his martial arts/sports training
by cleaning out your closet without informing you and not returing your properties they were in violation of he law, you should have gone to the police

Yes, I thought about consulting a lawyer, but truthfully, my former Master wasn’t a bad guy, he was basically upset because according to his traditon, a pupil should not bring in outside techniques. He was very “old school,” and I was fond of his family. I didn’t want ruin the guy.

Originally posted by Toudiyama
As far as your black belt goes, if your teacher was allowed to issue that, I'm not shure the WTF would have recognized it
If you passed the exam but didn't get a diplom, my question is did you pay extra for it, and was that because of the WTF?
If so did the WTF at least send you anything stating this?

Nope... I was told by my Master and the Testing Master that I had passed and would recieve my Black Belt and certificate... However, if you read my thread that was not the case.

Originally posted by Toudiyama
If there is no need to do so within the WTF than everybody can issue BB diploms, if you really want a diplom, just make one, it's just a piece of paper(mine are gathering dust on top of a cupboard

I don’t really want a diploma saying that I can do this or that... It’s just convenient, just alike a Bachelor’s Degree or Master’s. What happens if I meet a REALLY good TKD gym and want to further my training? I don’t want to pay the $300 black belt fee again... You see my point.

[eXcessiveForce]

The American Taekwondo Association was asked to be the olympic body since it is spread through out the world and has the worlds largest closed tournament circuit.
They turned it down for fear that the politics of the olympics would have a negative effect on the organization.


Seek out a good ATA, STF or WTTU school. THey system is very good even if many of the instructors are not.

[rooke]

Question for Great Sage...

This isn't a flame. Please clarify my current perception.

You're saying your teacher got mad at you because you started teaching things OTHER than what's in their curriculum? You're mentioning picking up other techniques and teaching it there. Isn't that like someone attending a history class and being shown some calculus? Sure its good...it might even prove more useful to that person, but they've taken a history class. And when they take a test on history, that calculus won't show.

TKD is based around forms and specific techniques necessary to achieve certain belt ranks, right? (I don't know...never took it)
Therefore, when you disregard your instructor's request to stick to the curriculum, you're no longer teaching TKD (class should then be called self-defense or Great Sage Style Self Defense or something). Therefore students studying what you're teaching would not do well, when tested by the main organization, right?

I'm NOT addressing the issue of whether or not the students can fight...that's separate. Fighting and a martial arts style are NOT necessarily the same thing. Some styles stress tradition and that's what people go for. Others go for cardio. Others want to learn how to fight. Others go for culture. Some go for discipline.

I'm not blasting you. This is my CURRENT UNDERSTANDING of your initial post. Am I offbase?

Rooke

[crazyjoe380]

Originally posted by Cain
You have to remember that WTF taekwondo (kukkiwon) is not the same as ALL taekwondo.. you have big differences between different federations and different nations on how things are done....

compared to muay thai and boxing.. it's crap.. you the captain save a hoe of tdk.. that's why you hate it when they diss the style.. everyone hates tdk except you ... lol.. funny aint it..

[Cain]

moha

i love it when littleJoe is obsessed by me and yes, i did do tkd for 4-5 years, and i liked a lot of it, it had a lot of lacking things too.. but well i hit harder than all boxers in my area (note, not more effectively, but harder:P) and i have harder shins than most thaiboxers, so it isn't a completely waste of time... but again, there is as many different ways of training tkd as it is different schools! and you will find everything from boring forms-only places, to more realistic and fun places. and again, little joi, i think you are cute when you show off your stupidity

[crazyjoe380]

bwhaha..

you are in all my posts..

my jiu jitsu posts, my women fighting posts..

you need to get off my dick sonny!

[Cain]

yes..

yes, ofcourse, I can't comment on things i care about anymore.. does this go for all the other members posting to more than one topic at a time too? you should attend a troll-school you suck at it now:P

[kungfupanda]

Re: moha

Originally posted by Cain
.....and yes, i did do tkd for 4-5 years, and i liked a lot of it, it had a lot of lacking things too.. but well i hit harder than all boxers in my area (note, not more effectively, but harder:P) and i have harder shins than most thaiboxers.....

Dude I'd love to hurt you. You didn't get hard shins doing Tae Kwon Do. If you did...they are still softer than a mediocure Thai fighters. From what I can tell you are full of crap. I'd like to see you fight a Muay Thai fighter or a boxer.


Can you smell the flames??

[Cain]

lol

sigh.. since you know so much about it, I'll leave you to it!

[eXcessiveForce]

Re: Re: moha

Originally posted by kungfupanda


Dude I'd love to hurt you. You didn't get hard shins doing Tae Kwon Do. If you did...they are still softer than a mediocure Thai fighters. From what I can tell you are full of crap. I'd like to see you fight a Muay Thai fighter or a boxer.


Can you smell the flames??

I have done TKD for 20+ years and I have always blocked kicks with my shins, I also have done similar conditioning to my shins as is done in muay thai. I started that when I was quite young and never had even heard of muay thai.

Muay thai does not have the corner covered on conditioning.

And in the system I of TKD is studied I went through the other day just to make sure with on of my muay thai instructors and found every technique used in Muay thai in the system. Same kicks, Same knees, Same elbows.

TKD is not the problem bad instructors are. And people who think one system is better than all others are idiots. It is the fighter and their skill level vs. a different fighter and their skill level.

[Toudiyama]

Re: Re: Re: moha

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce


I have done TKD for 20+ years and I have always blocked kicks with my shins, I also have done similar conditioning to my shins as is done in muay thai. I started that when I was quite young and never had even heard of muay thai.

Muay thai does not have the corner covered on conditioning.

And in the system I of TKD is studied I went through the other day just to make sure with on of my muay thai instructors and found every technique used in Muay thai in the system. Same kicks, Same knees, Same elbows.

TKD is not the problem bad instructors are. And people who think one system is better than all others are idiots. It is the fighter and their skill level vs. a different fighter and their skill level.

I was in the assumption that kicking below the belt wasn't allowed in TKD
Also if the Kick you were doing in TKD are the same as those you do in Muay Thai than one of the instructors isn't doing a good job, a roundhouse kick in TKD should be done by raising a bent leg and then stretch your knee, in MT the whole leg is lunged towards the opponent
Also I've never seen a lowkick in TKD.
And frontkicks in MT is done to push opponent away rather than drive the ball of the foot into the belly
conditining of the shin can start out by kicking a truck-tyre but I've seen guys kicking a streetlight

It's not that we think you are not conditioning as hard a MT people just that it isn't a part of TKD to do so

[Great Sage]

Re: Question for Great Sage...

Originally posted by rooke
You're saying your teacher got mad at you because you started teaching things OTHER than what's in their curriculum? You're mentioning picking up other techniques and teaching it there. Isn't that like someone attending a history class and being shown some calculus? Sure its good...it might even prove more useful to that person, but they've taken a history class. And when they take a test on history, that calculus won't show.

Well, I don't think you have a very good analogy... Basically, instead of blocking and high kicks, I incorporated low to medium kicks and a lot of boxing principles in my hand techniques. I also touched on basic grappling techniques and how to watch for them.

Originally posted by rooke
TKD is based around forms and specific techniques necessary to achieve certain belt ranks, right? (I don't know...never took it) Therefore, when you disregard your instructor's request to stick to the curriculum, you're no longer teaching TKD (class should then be called self-defense or Great Sage Style Self Defense or something). Therefore students studying what you're teaching would not do well, when tested by the main organization, right?

Yes, but curriculum is only a means to serve the end. I basically fed my students what I thought would be helpful to them while not taking away from their TKD curriculum... Is that so wrong? Aside from that, I believe every instructor incorporates techniques that are based on their own experience and knowlege.

Originally posted by rooke
I'm NOT addressing the issue of whether or not the students can fight...that's separate. Fighting and a martial arts style are NOT necessarily the same thing. Some styles stress tradition and that's what people go for. Others go for cardio. Others want to learn how to fight. Others go for culture. Some go for discipline.

I'm not blasting you. This is my CURRENT UNDERSTANDING of your initial post. Am I offbase?

Yes, you are correct, I maybe should have considered that people attend for different reasons. I suppose I didn't want anyone to have a false sense of security. I was , afterall, teaching adult classes which are more advanced. Fighting and martial arts may not be one and the same, but people generally sign up because aside from health benefits are fighting potentials, otherwise they would be in yoga, aerobics and other fitness activities.

[eXcessiveForce]

Re: Re: Re: Re: moha

Originally posted by Toudiyama


I was in the assumption that kicking below the belt wasn't allowed in TKD
Also if the Kick you were doing in TKD are the same as those you do in Muay Thai than one of the instructors isn't doing a good job, a roundhouse kick in TKD should be done by raising a bent leg and then stretch your knee, in MT the whole leg is lunged towards the opponent
Also I've never seen a lowkick in TKD.
And frontkicks in MT is done to push opponent away rather than drive the ball of the foot into the belly
conditining of the shin can start out by kicking a truck-tyre but I've seen guys kicking a streetlight

It's not that we think you are not conditioning as hard a MT people just that it isn't a part of TKD to do so

Let me clarify,

I said I found all the techniques contained inside the form of TKD that I study.

In the system is study there are different forms of the same kick.

Front snap kick is as you describe
Front Thrust kick =Teep
Round Kick with chamber is as you describe.
Round kick (PPCT) is thai round kick

Kicking should be practiced to all targets above and below the belt. However most tournaments do not allow kicks below the belt or clinching.

We work all ranges at my school, My students have been taught for the last 10 years to kick to the legs, to push, to grab, and to go to the ground.

We are taught about the physics of kicking. and the difference between Fluid and Impulse shock.

Snap kicks are impulse shock, thai kicks are fluid shock. Both have their uses but they are not interchangeable.

Understand I do not train in WTF or ITF TKD. Which is very sport oriented at its core. I teach my students how to go to tournaments and play by the rules so that they can win. But the rest of the time they are working on more realistic types of sparring and application.