The Tae Kwon Do Thread... Your thoughts.

[platinum_angel]

because then tkd would change into something that is not TKD.

[Hardball]

Salvageable TKD techniques include: Side kick (with less chamber), quick footwork (not including longswitches) and front kick (groin kick).

Less effective techniques make up the bulk of TKD: Rounhouse Kick, crescent kicks, spinning kicks, jumping kicks, flying kicks, tornado kick, hopping kicks, including variations, etc...

In all my years training in TKD, there was never any training in striking with the hands, other than a reverse punch. Therefore, TKD really needs to address this problem.

Please share your thoughts and experiences in a constructive manner.

Sincerely,
Great Sage

BUMP, Sorry folks i'm new here and I like this TKD thread.

What about the front Thrust kick? {jab}

I agree wilth everything in the above 3 paragraphs. Except for:

I believe the roundhouse kick is a nice kick if you use it with suprise or if you use it as a finish off technique. Also, all Dojangs do not teach the same cirriculium. {sp} At my Dojang we had a lot of hand techniques including spinning backfist, backfist, cross, knifehand, hook, and upset punch however, the instructors were closed minded and only taught these hand techniques to intermediate and advanced belt ranks. But on the good note; they reccomended to us to condition our knuckles on the makawari.

In tkd it all depends on what part of town your dojang is in. In the Hood, TKD can be modified into a tenacious street self defense art. The key is to bring the kicks down to mid gate or lower gate.

I guess I'm partial to tkd because it was the first system I studied. Since tkd, Ive studied at least a half dozen other systems.

[Tom Yum]

TKD gets dogged alot because alot of people take it for different reasons. Yes, we know of the soccer moms that do it for workouts and the 11 year old black belts...

The guys who practice TKD seriously and take their conditioning seriously are dangerous with their feet but are usually mediocre with their hands, unless they cross train. Pretty much with whatever kick they throw is going to be really hard and lightning fast. Some muay thai trainers encourage their fighters to learn TKD just to get more experience with different styles of kicking.

I have worked out with TKD guys before; they use their side kick like a boxer uses a jab or like a muay thai fighter uses a teep, except the side kick is faster and harder than both because it is both snapped and uses hip. Their fight tempo is pretty quick and their footwork is good too.

I think the best kicks from TKD are the side kick, front snap kick, lead leg hook kick, twist kick (its deceptive) and spinning back/wheel kick (if used sparringly).

[Whispers]

I just want to know why every Muay Thai practitioner thati've read on this forum (or at least the one who come into this section) assumes that all TKD schools use pads and lots of them.
I under stand that the ATA uses alot of them and that they are the most common type of dojang around, so that might have something to do with it, but most of the TKD practitioners who come to this forum seem to be the type fo MA that would attend an ATA dojang or one that required a similar level of padding.
Children in my dojang use padding when they go full force, but that's it. There are some people who use hand and shin wraps but most of us do not. We do use kicking sheilds in some drills (which i consider a pad, i'm not sure how the rest of you categorise them).

[Tom Yum]

You can stop whispering now...

[Acitic]

I think the best kicks from TKD are the side kick, front snap kick, lead leg hook kick, twist kick (its deceptive) and spinning back/wheel kick (if used sparringly).

What is a twist kick? Can you describe it to me please.

[Tom Yum]

What is a twist kick? Can you describe it to me please.

Sure. You stand facing your opponent, chamber your left kicking leg and turn your left shin parallel to the ground with your left knee pointing to the left. The kick is going to attack from your inside to your left-front side (opposite direction of your left leg roundhouse).

Explode off the ball of your planted foot while whipping your hips through the kick, snapping your kick through the target. Do the exact opposite for your right leg.

Some people call it the reverse roundhouse, but I was told that TKD guys called it twist kick.

[Spookey]

Twisting Kick...

Readers,

The twisting kick is an amazingly deceptive technique...

From my experience, I have found that the kick is very penetrating and slippery to the reflexes. Most individuals will see the kick and react as if defending against a cresent kick, hook kick, or other circular high kick. They will generally raise their hands to defend their head...BOOM in the gut!

TAEKWON!
Spookey

[Tom Yum]

Its an honor to hear the advice of well accomplished TKD fighters and instructors, like yourself.

While I think TKD has some really good kicking techniques, I also think that the art needs cross training with grappling or even another striking art.

Some of the more common cross-training styles that seem like really good combination: TKD-judo-hapkido, TKD-boxing, TKD-muaythai.

Each combination produces a different kind of fighter. still, a more complete fighter than before.

The one and only exception is that of very-very traditional TKD, before it became a sport. This is style looks like Tang Soo do and practices empty-handed striking quite frequently. It could easily be mistaken for karate.

[sirmattu]

IMO I think the axe kick and turning side/back kick are also salvagable.

TKD is a sport and is practiced full contact - so it has its niche. Its not as effective in the niche of NHB or MMA fighting, wheras other arts are more combat oriented.

Because of the way its used in sport, the fighter is placed off balance. Have you seen the muay thai vs. tkd video? They are fighting with no punches to the head, but the thai guy levels the TKD guy with a left hook to the body, not to mention that kick to his supporting leg, his body and head. At one point, the TKD guy counters a thai kick with a turning side kick (classical TKD) but the turning side kick gets jammed by the thai boxers push kick.

TKD kicks are chambered and snapped. This serves the purpose in the sport arena to guarantee fast point scoring and continuos action (not all the time). TKD kicking is extremely fast and hard, but lacks the power of thai kicks. The reason being is that the thai kick is thrown with one's weight behind it and travelling in the same direction of the kick - TKD kicks are thrown leaning back, rotating the planted foot and snapping the kick.

Also if your shins are conditioned strongly enough, you can kick a persons kick and end a fight. If you're a 120lb guy from thailand with no nerves in your lead-pipe shins and have an extremely fast kick, you could cripple the legs of a much larger fighter without any contact based conditioning.

TKD doesn't address punching as much, except for the ridge hand and reverse punch. To make up for this, some TKD practicioners take up boxing.

The TKD guys that start to train in MT usually get good pretty quickly once they learn the kicks.

My experience with Korean MAs is that the higher ranked, the more political it is. Seems like you have to be a 5th dan to really get the attention of the orgs - Good Luck with your letter.

what are you smoking? what ever it is........ you need to share

[Tom Yum]

what are you smoking? what ever it is........ you need to share

LOL....I think TKD has some usefull kicking techniques. There's nothing crazy about that.

Its true, most TKD dudes don't develop their hand techniques unless they cross train.

[Tom Yum]

What is a twist kick? Can you describe it to me please.

Hey man, seeing your an assistant instructor in all those styles, do you want to correct my technique description and clarify?

[Acitic]

Hey man, seeing your an assistant instructor in all those styles, do you want to correct my technique description and clarify?

I personally train Taekwon-Do and had never heard of the twisting kick becase my school does not incorperate it, that is why I needed clarification.

As for you comment on my Apprentice Instuctorship in Arnis De Cadena(web site is avalible however it is out of date and does not explain the growth of our system as of today), translated Chain Of Arnis, it is a chain because it incorperates Boxing, JKD, Jujitsu, Muay Tai, Kali, Balintawak, Ilustrisimo, Escrima, Systema and a bit of Jun Fan. All the sytems have either been studied by the Head Insturctor, or brought in by MA students. Example, All of are Jujitsu comes from Kevin Lintott(associated with the Alberta Jui-Jitsu Association). All of The Ilustrisimo and Kali comes from Master Norman Suanico and Master Sonny Padilla. Muay Tai comes from a club out in BC, Canada(not sure on referance but if anyone wants it I Can Find out( believe his instuctor was something sung or song)), Jun Fan also comes from BC (Where our head instructor studied in his teens). Our Guro also has basic instructor certification in Balintawak and is going for his completion of the art when Bobby Taboada comes to Canada, etc.

Boxing, JKD, Jujitsu, Muay Tai as being the main empty hand curriculum, while Kali, Balintawak, Ilustrisimo, Escrima and modern arnis creates the weapons aspect of it. We train more in weapons than empty hand.

I hope this answers/clarifys.

[Acitic]

I hope this answers/clarifys.

Just one more clarification. I am not saying that I am a good martial artist or that I am anywhere at the point that i could pass along knowledge of any of these systems. I still have much much to learn, but then again we can never truely know a system, things are consistantly changing, you just have to work hard at it and continualy "chisel away the things that don't work"

[Tom Yum]

Hey man, I have much to learn too. Its a never ending process.