You guys are talking about boxing too much. Don't forget that in boxing the fighter's are all within a few pounds of each other. Real KO power is proven when you take someone down who is a lot bigger than you, in my opinion.
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What physiological traits give a man KO POWER in his fists???
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Big Bird: I'm going to have to strongly disagree if you believe speed is a factor that cannot be improved. While everyone has a different POTENTIAL, and have differing performance levels at sedentary homeostasis, it's a general concensus with credible and elite training circles that speed can definately be improved. I can see how this is a common misconception in boxing however, boxing is riddled with flawed S & C training paradigms(DLH) and methodologies; very few(Holyfield) employ scientifically sound training.
Robbie: Either A- That was intended as a joke, B- You fought quadrapeligic wheel-chair bound partners, C- Are indeed the next Mike Tyson, or D- are full of sh!tWhich is it?
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This thread is hysterical!
Let me try to put this all together.
To throw a KO punch, you need:
1) Full commitment
2) Proper technique/leverage
3) Some physical strength.
I would add 3) to Joe Manco's list, just because it seems like there are some guys, as Big Bird and CC said, who can't seem to hurt anybody no matter how hard they try or how well they punch.
As far as strength goes, the order of importance seems to be Legs, Midsection, and Upper body. Legs to start the movement, Midsection to turn the hips and torso, and Upper body to drive that mother home.
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Hey Joe, I'm gonna say this for the last time asshole: I'M TALKING ABOUT NATURAL PUNCHING POWER, NOT NATURAL STRENGTH!!!
Yeah, there are skinny guys like Tommy Hearns who could hit hard, but also remember, guys like him have NATURAL PUNCHING POWER!!!
Also size and overall strength have to do with KO power. Why do you think there are weight classes?
C'mon Joe Jerk Off!!!
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Colon Muncher:
Great, I'm glad you spoke for the last time ... since the stench of your breath remains for hours.
You said,
"I'M TALKING ABOUT NATURAL PUNCHING POWER, NOT NATURAL STRENGTH!!!"
Well first of all, sporto, calm down. Second, you are talking in general terms. If you'd put a pacifier in your mouth and take a deep breath, you would realize I merely BROKE DOWN what natural punching power is. (1) A true puncher commits, and (2) a true puncher uses proper leverage. Puncher's physiques don't matter, as they very from skinny to muscled up, but each one of them (1) has a big enough d!ck to fully commit to the punch and not move, hold back, or apologize ... and (2) they all use proper leverage. Simple as that.
What you're too f*cking stupid to realize is what you call "natural punching power" I have merely DEFINED. If you feel that natural punching power holds some *other* definition, then kindly state what that definition is. But as it stands, you are merely blithering out an ambiguous term: "Duhhh-uh I think there be guys who have ... uhhhh ... Natural Punching Power ... uh-huh ... and uhhhh ... that's why theys hit so hard."
Well no sh!t, Colon Muncher!
So dig deeper and state WHAT IS "natural punching power" ... and (if you have the faculties to go beyond simplism) you will come up with MY definition.
~~~~~~~~~~
PS: And sorry, Big Bird, but Bruce Seldon sucked and was a f*cking lay-down, cur joke.
Yours truly,
Joe
[Edited by Joe Manco on 11-23-2000 at 09:15 AM]
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My whole point in describing your asshole theory, and it IS an asshole theory, is wanting to kill the guy and fully committing on every one of your punches is needed to be a KO puncher, absoloutly(sp?), I agree 100%.....BUT.....it is certainly not the most important thing in determining if you have KO power,like you have been saying. You are either a puncher or not. Period. Plain and ****ing simple. Some guys knock people out without even ****ing trying. Look at Roy Jones Jr. He doesn't go all out with every one of his punches yet he knocks guys out left and right. Why??? Because he has a natural talent to punch hard, not because he read 'The Little Engine That Could' and said "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can." Hell, Roy says he even holds back on his punches sometimes! I realize he is the exception rather than the rule, but still. Look at Tyson back in the day, he threw with bad intentions every time, but if you noticed he never 'loaded up' with his punches. He shot them right from the chin. Watch the Spinks fight. Tyson didn't even break a sweat. He just had the natural ability to 'let the punches go'.
Again here it is:
1) (Most Important)
Natural punching power.
2)
Technique. Turning the hips, follow through, bring the punch back. A fundamentally sound 165 lbs. boxer could realistically punch harder than a 280 lbs. steroid freak.
3)
Size and strength. Contrary to what "boxing experts" like Joe Skankho think, size and strength play a role in the KO formula. Height, reach, bulk, weight, muscle and your overall strength (weights, etc.) plays a part in KO power. A small part, but a part.
I guess your wondering, Joe Skankho, why I didn't put 'committing to your punches' on the list. Well, that I consider a pre-requisite(sp?). That should go without saying. It's like putting brushing your teeth on your 'things to do' list for the day. You should already know to do that without being told.
There you have it Joe.
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Congratulations, Colon Muncher!
You have just earned the distinction of Biggest Idiot on the Forum.
You said,
"My whole point in describing your asshole theory, and it IS an asshole theory, is wanting to kill the guy and fully committing on every one of your punches is needed to be a KO puncher, absoloutly(sp?), I agree 100%.....BUT.....it is certainly not the most important thing in determining if you have KO power,like you have been saying."
RESPONSE:
You f*cking idiot. You agree 100% that DESIRE TO must come first, yet you say it is not the most important thing to have to be a KO puncher? What a maroon. Natural "punching power" is worthless if it is superceded by natural cowardice. If what "would" be a good puncher is a flinching coward, or if he moves too much, then he will ultimately NOT be a KO pouncher ... because his CAUTION will replace his DESIRE TO GET THE KO. Therefore, you are WRONG here bozo.
You said,
"You are either a puncher or not. Period. Plain and ****ing simple."
RESPONSE:
More simplistic babble from the simpleton. You haven't explained what "a natural puncher is," which is what the question centered around.
You said,
"Some guys knock people out without even ****ing trying. Look at Roy Jones Jr. He doesn't go all out with every one of his punches yet he knocks guys out left and right. Why??? Because he has a natural talent to punch hard, not because he read 'The Little Engine That Could' and said "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can." Hell, Roy says he even holds back on his punches sometimes! I realize he is the exception rather than the rule, but still."
RESPONSE:
Yes, *some* KO's come without trying due to great timing and great leverage ... but MOST KO's come from the serious INTENT to KO, plus proper timing and proper leverage. You cannot use the occasional "jab KO" to refute the norm, you clueless clown.
You said,
"Look at Tyson back in the day, he threw with bad intentions every time, but if you noticed he never 'loaded up' with his punches. He shot them right from the chin. Watch the Spinks fight. Tyson didn't even break a sweat. He just had the natural ability to 'let the punches go'."
RESPONSE:
Who TF said anything about loading up on punches? YES Tyson used to have >>>> BAD INTENTIONS <<<< that was my main point ... and YES Tyson also used >>>> PROPER LEVERAGE <<<< that was my other point ... you just proved BOTH of my points EXACTLY ... without realizing it ... you ignorant, simpleton f*ck.
...
You said,
"1) (Most Important)
Natural punching power."
RESPONSE:
WTF is that? Explain it. IMO, natural punching power IS Natural Killer Desire + Good Natural Technique.
You said,
"2)
Technique. Turning the hips, follow through, bring the punch back. A fundamentally sound 165 lbs. boxer could realistically punch harder than a 280 lbs. steroid freak."
RESPONSE:
You're parroting me here, clown.
You said,
"3)
Size and strength. Contrary to what "boxing experts" like Joe Skankho think, size and strength play a role in the KO formula. Height, reach, bulk, weight, muscle and your overall strength (weights, etc.) plays a part in KO power. A small part, but a part."
RESPONSE:
We never got into weight differences, but "bulk and muscles" don't mean shit ... but significant overall frame size and weight differences can. But this is irrelevant to the discussion of one's OWN punching power.
You said,
"I guess your wondering, Joe Skankho, why I didn't put 'committing to your punches' on the list. Well, that I consider a pre-requisite(sp?). That should go without saying. It's like putting brushing your teeth on your 'things to do' list for the day. You should already know to do that without being told. There you have it Joe."
RESPONSE:
You're right. There I have it. Absolute proof of how stupid you are. You say "Committing should go without saying" ... but good technique is what needs to be mentioned? BULLSH!T, it is just the opposite. Without the true desire to plant and throw with 100% of what you got, your "technique" doesn't mean sh!t. It is good technique, actually, that should go without saying as to what makes a good punch. And it's funny ... no one even THOUGHT about the correct MINDSET of 100% committment to the punch rather than "safety first" ... until I came out and mentioned it.
Yours truly,
Joe
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Originally posted by Oberleutnant
Robbie: Either A- That was intended as a joke, B- You fought quadrapeligic wheel-chair bound partners, C- Are indeed the next Mike Tyson, or D- are full of sh!tWhich is it?
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You have to be the biggest dork on this forum. Seriously, you sound like a ****ing retard. NO SHIT IF YOU WANT TO KO SOMEONE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT IN YOUR MINDSET!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that is common sense. Shit, I can even go further and say "the number one thing you need to do to be a KO puncher is to throw a punch." That is the most basic thing isn't it. That is the simplicity which you are speaking of. Ofcourse you have to throw to KO if you plan on actually getting a KO. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Shit, do you have to remind yourself to wipe your ass every time you take a dump? I hope not. Jusy like you don't have to 'check' yourself that you're throwing for a KO.
"Natural Punching Power" is when you can throw a punch with no formal training and hurt people. I have seen street/bar/school fights where the participants threw punches that couldn't knock a first grader out. Before I ever boxed, I got into some fights and hurt people...bad. I never knew how to throw a correct punch. I was also very small (tall, skinny). That is "Natural Punching Power", it has nothing to do with weight lifting, strength, etc. Since I learned how to correctly throw a punch I hit even harder.
When talking about an individual's KO power you say muscles, size, etc. don't mean shit. Bullshit. Plain out bullshit. When I was 156 I hit hard, I took a year off, hit the weights and came back 196. I hit harder than ever. According to your shit logic, my power would've stayed the same.
Also, you never responded to my Roy Jones Jr. comparison? Why?
I am right, you are wrong.
Survey says, one more for the bad guys.
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Colon Muncher:
I get it now. My pointing out the subtlety that one must really stay committed to the punch was "retarded" of me to say ... but you saying a guy has to have "natural punching power" was absolutely genius of you to say.
I see.
Um, what you (with your pre-Zambian-era IQ) aren't realizing ... STILL ... is that "natural punching power" PRECISELY comes from naturally staying committed to the punch and naturally using correct leverage. Most people DON'T naturally stay committed to the punch, they have a part of them too fearful to commit, nor do they naturally use proper leverage. You idiot.
You said,
""Natural Punching Power" is when you can throw a punch with no formal training and hurt people."
RESPONSE:
It could be - and if so, then then it IS so precisely for the reasons set forth above. But whether you have true power or not is an a$$umption on your part. The "people" you've hurt could be glass-jawed, they could have been caught unaware, or any number of other factors that contributed to their being "hurt." So, it all depends on who's getting hit, as well as the surrounding circumstances, to be able to conclude if in fact it is the puncher's power, the opponent's glass jaw, or both that caused the KO.
You said,
"That is "Natural Punching Power", it has nothing to do with weight lifting, strength, etc."
THEN you said,
"I took a year off, hit the weights and came back 196. I hit harder than ever."
RESPONSE:
Well, which is it? Do weights have something to do with it or not? The answer is NO. You sound like a young bonehead who doesn't know what he's talking about. Did weights help Holyfield become a KO artist? No. Did they help Seldon? No. Could Roberto Duran and Thomas Hearns punch w/o weights? Yes. Robinson? Yes. Did Hearns hit harder when he finally did lift weights, got bigger, and moved up ... or in fact did his punch not get any better at all? Weights may help your overall body strength, but they don't do A THING to increase your punching power.
You said,
"According to your shit logic, my power would've stayed the same."
RESPONSE:
Your power DID stay the same, you are just full of sh!t here. What measuring device did you use to show that your punch was harder? What common opponents were hit and finished significantly quicker to verify your claims? Names, dates, and times, please. The fact is your punch DID stay the same, but your body just became stronger and felt better.
You said,
"Also, you never responded to my Roy Jones Jr. comparison? Why?"
RESPONSE:
I did respond, you're just too f*cking stupid to read and see it.
You said,
"I am right, you are wrong. Survey says, one more for the bad guys."
RESPONSE:
You're young, c*cky, and stupid ... and the survey says ... Yes, very much so.
Yours truly,
Joe
[Edited by Joe Manco on 11-23-2000 at 04:08 PM]
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You are an asshole. A stupid asshole. I will explain why.
1) You said Holyfield didn't improve his KO punch when he bulked up with the weights? Are you insane? So you're telling me the 215-220 lbs. Holyfield who put Tyson on queer street didn't hit any harder than the 175 lbs. Holyfield who fought Dwight Qawi? That is just retarded. And I know what you're gonna say, Evander had more KO's at Light Heavyweight than at Heavyweight. Well, obviously, since he's fighting bigger stronger fighters now.
2) You said Hearns and Duran hit hard even without weights. How the **** do you know they didn't lift? If they didn't I'm sure they did some form of strength training (push ups, pull ups, etc).
3) You said Hearns and Duran didn't hit any harder when they moved up. No, their skills didn't get any better, but their power improved. Skills and power are two different traits, pal. Ask any fighter who moves up in weight...YOU HIT HARDER. Especially in Hearns case (welterweight to cruiserweight).
4) You said my "natural punching power" is an assumption on my part. No I didn't assume anything at first. I'm not gonna get into the streetfights I was in before I started really boxing, because I think it's stupid to talk about your streetfights on the net. Fact is, I haven't been in more than a handful but in the ones I did throw down in everyone who I ever fought was recognized by my peers as "tough as shit" and couldn't be hurt. Well I hurt them and they admitted it in public these people. Also, my first week in the boxing gym, two trainers in my area held mits for me and said I was a natural puncher. They said I hit hard as ****. These are also two guys who sugar coat nothing. So as you can see, I "assumed" nothing. I only listened.
5) You said I didn't hit harder with my weight increase. HOW THE **** DO YOU KNOW BITCH!!!!!!!!!!! I think my trainers are more entitled to say than you are. Have we ever met? Did you see me punch at 156 lbs.? Did you see me punch at 194 lbs.? Don't assume. Both my trainers said I was hitting alot harder on the mits than my lighter weight. Guys I sparred at both weights said, I was hitting ALOT harder. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I wonder if I hit harder? LOL!
6) No, you didn't give me a response to my Roy Jones Jr. comparison. How do you explain his KO power when he doesn't even try to KO people?
7) You said I am young, cocky, and stupid. Well, I am young (age 20). I am confident not cocky. And I am not stupid. Why do you think I am studpid Ho..I mean Joe. Is it beacause I speak the truth.
Go home son, you just got schooled.
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Colon Muncher:
1) Evander DID have more KO's at Light Heavyweight than at Heavyweight. You admit this is true yourself. But he was fully mature and at his PEAK at Cruiser. And from here, NO, he did not hit harder when he went up to heavy - he just gained enough size to handle the extra weight of his opponents, not to punch harder.
2) Your drivel about Duran and Hearns was pure spectulation, dickwad. You're grasping at straws because you're too immature and young to have a clue what you're talking about. I know for a fact Ray Arcel never let Duran lift weights. Tommy didn't either until he moved up in weight. You are Wrong. Wrong. Just face it, son.
3) Second, neither Hearns nor Duran hit harder when they moved up. You have to be the stupidest person in the world to say otherwise. Go look at their KO percentages at their lighter, best weights ... then go compare their percentages to after they moved up. Duran only got a handful of KO's after he went to welter and beyond, as did Hearns. Many, many more went the distance when they were heavier than they did when they were lighter. LMAO, what a clown you are.
4) You said, " ...everyone who I ever fought was recognized by my peers as 'tough as shit' and couldn't be hurt ..." ROTFLMFAO!!! I'm just going to leave that alone as a classic ... that and the fact you still didn't address WHAT makes for a "natural"
5) Once again, you didn't give me any statistics, any names, just more hot air.
6) I did give you a response. First of all, to say Roy doesn't try for KO's is assinine. Being an a$$, it is no surprise you believe this pap. Second, my statement concerning same was, "Yes, *some* KO's come without trying due to great timing and great leverage ... but MOST KO's come from the serious INTENT to KO, plus proper timing and proper leverage. You cannot use the occasional "jab KO" to refute the norm, you clueless clown."
Did it sink in this time, you little punk b!tch?
7) I knew you were young, c*cky, and stupid - and once again you just confirmed this.
Yours truly,
Joe
[Edited by Joe Manco on 11-23-2000 at 09:28 PM]
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If you honestly beleive that Evander Holyfield didn't hit harder as a heavyweight you are much more of a stupid bastard than I thought. And to say Hearns didn't either just proves my point even more. You are stupid. Ofcourse when you are bigger you hit harder. Ya ever hear of weight classes you ****in' faggott!
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Yes, I've heard of weight classes, sonny.
However, bigger men hit harder when they are NATURALLY bigger ... but *you* won't hit harder moving up in class (unless it's by natural growth from youth to maturity). If you lift weights to move up in class, you will NOT hit harder ... but you will be slower and will not be as fluid. Again, look at Holyfield. He went from a multi-punching Light-Heavy/Cruiser ... to a one-two-punching heavy.
There is NO fighter ANYWHERE who improved their KO percentage moving up in weight purposefully.
It is a fact ALL fighters are at their best at their LIGHTEST weight they retain FULL STRENGTH.
So if anyone is a clueless faggot it is you for saying otherwise.
Yours truly,
Joe
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