To all BJJ Advanced Belts

[IPON]

Originally posted by Sean Dempsey
Dumbest thing I've read. Get a fucking clue.

LMAO...damn that was funny!!!!

[IPON]

Originally posted by gregimotis
Anyone who:
A) declares that they want a black belt and then
B) complains that said black belt takes too much effort
should be shown exactly where to go (pun intended).

agreed they deserve what they get


Grandmaster Roman has eliminated the hassles, time restraints, and major costs in obtaining a certified Black Belt. As a former school owner, it was necessary to keep a student in the school environment for 4 or 5 years to pay the overhead. The transfer of knowledge is easily done in 365 day or less by concentrating on the material rather than being your physical drill instructor. So, what we are selling is time and convenience to you. What is 4 years of your life worth by not having to go to a local martial arts school 2 or 3 times a week. Don’t you feel it’s about time you got your Black Belt?

[GuardMaster]

BJJ Blackbelts

Sean:

I wasn't taking shots at BJJ Blackbelts. I was just making a point that on average they are not well to do folk. They are in it for the passion they enjoy. Only the elite and lucky in the sport are really brining in the dollars and that represents like 1% of the bjj BLACKBELTS out there.

I admire any BJJ blackbelt for their skills, determination, and yes integrity. I don't look down on any of them because they make less than me. It took guts, skills, balls to get where they did so hats off to them!!


My point was simply that I have a career, and it brings in good money, so I should focus on it and use it as leverage (PUN INTENDED) to feed my bjj hobby. I would like to advance to blackbelt one day,and if its impossible in BJJ (if you have to basically make it your career to achieve it) then I'll go as far as I can in BJJ like purple belt, keep training cause I love it, and get my blackbelt in a complimentary art like shootwrestling, judo, or the like which MANY bjj blackbelt folk have also done. In fact some of the best bjj blackbelts have blackbelts in other systems. Roy harris is one such dude.

BTW there's no reason to attack me. I did not attack you in your posts. Perhaps you are jealous that I make a fat paycheck and think I'm a snob because of it. I dedicated myself to university which people should always do, then I put in 9 years work experience, and now I'm seeing the rewards of my efforts. So don't talk to me about dedication.

The dedication is there -- its just that its where the $$$$ is. MA is a PASSION. I.T. is a CAREER.

GM

[Sean Dempsey]

Re: BJJ Blackbelts

Originally posted by GuardMaster
MA is a PASSION. I.T. is a CAREER.

GM

I.T. is a career... until it's outsourced to India.

[Thai Bri]

Anyone can get a Black Belt, even from "Distance Learning". Its like anyone can get a degree, if they go to the crappest college. Perhaps you'd like to reflect on the WORTH uf such a thing.

[Szczepankiewicz]

I'd like to correct Sean on one point:

You can buy MY respect for $15, a bag of Doritos and a nekked picture of Bri Thai.


Every man has a price. Mine is pretty low due to an overage of supply and too little demand.

Spanky

[Benjamin Dover]

Sean,

You obviously are single. If you had a family you would know that a stable career is what will feed your wife and children.

I personally spent nine years in University. I am also a purple belt in BJJ. I can tell you right now that schooling and career took a lot more dedication and time than getting my purple belt. Just to let you know I didn't receive my purple from a matchbook. I got my blue through Marco Soares (Carlson Gracie 5th degree BB -who also happens to be one of the original 8 BJJ BB not from the Gracie family). I received my purple from Royce Gracie. Next Aug I am travelling down to test for my Brown with Renzo Gracie.

All those years in University will allow me to make more money than I ever could with my purple or hopefully future brown belt.

[IPON]

Originally posted by Benjamin Dover
I received my purple from Royce Gracie. Next Aug I am travelling down to test for my Brown with Renzo Gracie.

I think on another thread you stated you are an MD, so how long will it have taken you to reach Brown (including next Aug). Just cuious

[Szczepankiewicz]

I personally spent nine years in University.

You are either very well educated or simply a slack ass.

Which is it???

[GuardMaster]

Stay in School kids

I hope people are learning from the moral of this story... Stay in School kids!!!!

Don't forget as you get older its harder and harder to stay competitive in bjj as a teacher or competitor. Its a tough sport on the body -- even if you are a BJJ blackbelt. At 50 or 60 your not going to be able to roll as hard as you did at 30 with your top students. You may even get beat up on by the lower belts from time to time. This means unless you are a REAL BIG NAME LIKE A GRACIE or have some serious means of making $$$ you're S.O.L.!


In a career that relies less on age, take for instance (Insert drum roll again) Programming, I sit at a desk and *think*. I use my brain and type at a minimal speed enough to program. I can do this till I'm 75 for all I care as long as I remain sharp and focused. I can even be a better programmer at 65 than at 33, with the experience I gain over the 30 years. Sure sitting at a desk all day is not good enough by itself for health, but remember I also will be doing BJJ , working out etc

My purpose in these messages is not to boast but to shed light on the subject of BJJ, careers, and finances. The younger you are the more you can probably go get your BJJ blackbelt because you don't have the responsibility of mortgages etc. But as you get older you gotta think.... otherwise you'll end up like Rorion Gracie once did --- "I taught out of my Garage every night... to pay for dinner for my family".....

GM

[Benjamin Dover]

If I get my brown belt in Aug next year it will have been a little over 5 years. From White to Blue it took 1 year. For the first year I trained 2-3 hours/day 6 days a week. Blue - Purple was 2 years. I trained with Marco Soares' school for 3 months full time. 6-7hrs/day for 3 months. I also went to Brazil for 2 months and trained full time. During this time frame I trained on avg 2hrs/day for 5 days a week. In order to get ready for my Brown I have been training for 2 1/2 solid hours per day for the last 7 months

[IPON]

Re: Stay in School kids

Originally posted by GuardMaster
Don't forget as you get older its harder and harder to stay competitive in bjj as a teacher or competitor.

otherwise you'll end up like Rorion Gracie once did --- "I taught out of my Garage every night... to pay for dinner for my family"

Just a few points:


1. I agree 100% as anyone gets older 60's+ their functioning will decline. So yes, they may not be able to compete at the same level and they should not be expected to. However, do you think if you attacked Helio on the street, he would not hand you your ass after you received a blue belt in his own style.

2. Since this is a MA forum, MA is the focus. Now we may discuss our jobs to give an example or when asked but generally we focus on MA. Quite honestly, there are quite a few people on the forum that dwarf your numbers in yearly gross and net totals, but they are not repeatining it on every post because it is not relevant. I would even say that for a programmer 70K is low most IT people I know that are not consulting without an MBA are on average 20% higher. I know there can be regional differences in salary and no disrespect intended but this is why is not important to brag and throw these numbers around.


3. I am a consultant managing cardiovascular studies in the pharmaceutical industry and I am incorporated (for consulting purposes) and I am finishing my MBA (about 1yr left). I am also a bouncer and a actor that is trying very hard to stop consulting. I am saying this for a reason - I don’t sleep!!!. Seriously, why do you think you need to inform anyone on this forum about career and education. I think the point was can you make a living as a teacher and the answer is yes. To qualify "make a living" is obviously subjective

4. Though I have made statements regarding the Gracies, overall, I do not have a problem with any Gracie (and the only one I have talked with personally is Renzo). But I do not agree with your statement about Riorian. Many artists, MAs included have made and continue to make sacrifices for there respective craft. It is not easy to explain this passion if you are not an artist (I do not mean that as an insult).

I have said that the initial UFC was marketing for GJJ; it was period. I did not like the boasting of the GRACIE Challenge, but I also realized it was as much marketing as his belief in his system. But here is the point, do you understand what is involved, what kind of business plan you need to get the corporate buy-in to realize this project. It was not created in a day or two. That hunger and passion came from his family’s legacy and the passion for his art. Now look at Riorian a very successful businessman still teaching MAs

This is why I do not feel that MA in general, but specifically grappling arts is for everyone. Because MA involve passion and it is as much lifestyle combined with budo as it is training. Unfortunately, most do not understand this concept and IMHO are not true MAs regardless of ranking. Fighter or class attendees, maybe - MAs no.

4. Regarding the training in the garage, If it was a decision his family made there is nothing wrong with it. It would be like a restaurant owner, cab driver, club owner etc. It is the risk of running a business and risk, in general, are not circumvented by formal education (though it can be lessened). There are many people that own there own business now in NYC that are barely paying rent and feeding there families. The restaurant owner could have a degree from Wharton Business school if people do not come to the restaurant because of 9/11 what can you do.

5. I agree that any business venture needs to be well planed. will it just be a dojo maybe my long term will include a gym also to attract more customers, maybe I will partner with 1-2 different teacher to share the cost eg. open to MT, boxing or Kali to increase share. but the important part is not to sacrifice the style for the money.

Benefits, bounes etc. are certainly not what you would have as an FTE (employee). but there are may benefits to woning your won bussiness and from I tax perspective the issue is not how much you gross it is how much you net.

College is safe and should be done but there are option like a bond vs. futures bonds are steady yield while futures can bankrupt you in 5minutes but the rewards are greater and that the risk.

So this response was not to flame I understand what you are saying but there are different sides.

[Sean Dempsey]

GuardMaster-

Shut the **** up.

Thanks!!!!

[Benjamin Dover]

Quite honestly, there are quite a few people on the forum that dwarf your numbers in yearly gross and net totals, but they are not repeatining it on every post because it is not relevant. I would even say that for a programmer 70K is low

I do not think that Guardmaster was bragging. He was just making a point that 70K in a steady career is more stable than relying on being a BJJ BB making 28K. He was not saying that it is better but to raise a family it certainly provides more security than being a BB. I happen to personally know at least 8 BJJ BB. 6 own a school. They make a good wage due to their business skills and NOT their BJJ skills. The other 2 who are BB do not have their own schools but earn the majority of their money via another career.

[IPON]

Benjamin: I understand and my point is that it is not important to bring numbers. Also, that it is subjective. Repeatedly emphasizing GD's title and salary it did seem like bragging . However, There is a variable not accounted for ... a 2nd income. If someone is married the spouse may have a decent to very good job with benefits so making 20k-30k in BJJ might not be so bad. But again it is situational, if someone wants to go into business f/t it is a process, short/long term planning should be involved.

I agree that a "career" is more stable (and arguably less satisfying). My point was about owning your own business vs being an employee. There is always uncertainy and risk as the owner vs the employee. That would be true in any circumstance. Also people do not have the stomach for the business ownership, not right or wrong just preference. So I do not think people should be criticized on preference and life style. If I am comfortable at 28K and can pay my bills but don't have an exotic car or an acre of property isn't that my choice. Also, salary is dependent on the field tech field pay high, as does nursing and accounting which are probably the highest paid fields after graduating college. By contrast, alot of teachers, social workers, administrative assistants, etc. are not making 28-30K per/yr. So it is a perspective. I am being general (and I know we are discussing BJJ) but this was my point I don't think the people on this board need an explantion of career vs. business ownership, especially if the example is not complete.

Again, no flame just offering a differnt perspective.