The Truth Regarding BJJ...

[wardancer]

This week, we trained BJJ with no-gi.
During 'rolling', one fighter put gloves-on and the other do not.
Both fighters have can BJJ but the guy with the gloves is allowed to strike (punch,elbow,knee,kick at a moderate strengh).
If you have not experienced such training (under striking pressure trying to apply BJJ techniques) then you do not do BJJ (sue your instructor).
And do not give the story about sport BJJ and Vale Tudo crap....

[tekshow]

i believe he could have 7 years experience. experience isn't hard to come by at all, it's a worth while experience that you have to really look for. I've been training in BJJ for over 2 years and i have no rank. Yet i've gone to some schools and they ask me if i have a black belt. I can pull off something moderate like the omoplata no problem, so why do i need a belt to help me to do that? i think mr stevens is in a different realm, but that's my perspective.


and BJJ was around well before the Gracies, in fact if you research Helio a little bit you'll see that he attributes all wrestling arts to areas like Egypt and Indonesia... it's not just reality tv that propels this stuff, it just made it popular. I don't mind it too much, i just can't stand the BJJ sites that come with porn, skanky girls and are sponsored by bud light. Don't take the honor out of martial arts just to make it popular.



my .02$ peace.
joe

[CKD]

Wrong, Robin Gracie could not do anything about it when he fought that French dude (Riccio? not sure of his name). After watching the tape, I was surprised to see Robin not being able to sweep or even submitted from half-guard/full guard.
Boring fight with Frenchy keep pounding from the mount.

Riccio is another grappler so of course it was harder to sweep him. Robin headbutted Riccio from the guard and gave him a cut. But what really through Robin off is that Riccio was a pro fighter who had trained months before fighting Robin. So he obviously had the upper hand by the fact that Robin had no clue he was a pro fighter and spent most of the match trying to comprehend that. Robin was thinking he was some kung-fu guy trying to show the world how deadly kung-fu was and how it was better than BJJ rather than a pro mma. Anyways Robin beat him up anyway in another challenge match. I agree with everyone else that if you are not learning all three apects of bjj, sport bjj, self defense bjj, and vale tudo bjj. Then you probaly find someone who should.

[Arclight]

Tekshow, agreed on some of your points, but:

1. Those who train BJJ consistently normally take between a year and two years to make it to blue, or at least get stripes on their white... if they're training with someone at a level who can legitimately give out rank. As you know the BJJ standard is a little different in that across the board it is tied highly to your ability not only to know moves by rote but you have to be able to defeat a certain rank level consistently in rolling. So moreso than traditional arts, especially McDojo TKD, belt level in BJJ is tied to a certain amount of experience, skill, and proven ability to tap belt levels below.

2. Building on that - someone coming on here with certain opinions on BJJ based on HIS EXPERIENCE with BJJ, as he stated, brings the issue of his experience fully in question as it directly relates to not only the veracity of his claims (e.g. has he really even ever trained BJJ) but the stock that should be placed in his observations - a no-rank white belt making overarching claims on BJJ based on his "experience" is pretty ridiculous, I dont care how non-rank-infatuated one might be. The depth and breadth of experience is relevant when you are using your supposed experience as a bludgeon in an argument.

pstevens the troll put his experience in BJJ out there as validation, so it's perfectly viable and appropriate to ask him to substantiate that experience.

Anybody who has trained for 7 years has to have advanced in rank if they have had any consistency and skill. I'm sorry, but to not even have received stripes on your white in 7 years? That is fishy. Moreso because if such a feat were true, it would mean even more that the person's authority to speak on BJJ "based on experience" is close to nil.

Nobody who knows BJJ claims that it is a wholly new art - but it is unique, it is neither Kosen Judo nor traditional Japanese JJ for example. And while some of the techniques may have been around in different forms, as a whole art with very specific details on groundwork, they were not brought together with that depth of detail until BJJ. This can be argued, but the fact is that it's pretty hard for "Gracie (or Brazilian if preferred) Jiu-Jitsu" or BJJ to exist before it was created by a Brazilian. This is almost semantic in simplicity, and does not need to go beyond that because the claims that faker pstevens are making do not say "I trained in groundfighting" or "I trained in precursors to BJJ" , he specifically states that he has "trained BJJ for 7 years".

Thus, holding him accountable to his supposed "BJJ" experience is perfectly viable... again, he was the one that put it out there and in specific terms as to what he studied and for how long.

[Arclight]

pstevens has apparently retreated to the trolling high ground.

[wardancer]

pstevens has apparently retreated to the trolling high ground.

Well, that is good thing. Some of the stuff he said were stupid.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Wardancer, I wasn't talking about pro trained opponents facing each other. I was talking more about if some beer drinking brawler took me down that I'd be able to sweep or sub him in a couple seconds. And 99.9% of guys wouldn't even know what a kimura, armbar, triangle, or sweep was.

If Robin Gracie were in an Irish pub in the midwest and some trailer trash, plaid shirt wearing brawler took him down the guy would be a sitting duck for a sweep or sub. If a pro fighter with lots of martial arts experience takes Robin Gracie down it's a different story altogether.
So bjj is plenty good for self defense on its own. For mma a more well rounded approach is needed.

[Creeper]

This week, we trained BJJ with no-gi.
During 'rolling', one fighter put gloves-on and the other do not.
Both fighters have can BJJ but the guy with the gloves is allowed to strike (punch,elbow,knee,kick at a moderate strengh).
If you have not experienced such training (under striking pressure trying to apply BJJ techniques) then you do not do BJJ (sue your instructor).
And do not give the story about sport BJJ and Vale Tudo crap....

Where do you train?

[wardancer]

Wardancer, I wasn't talking about pro trained opponents facing each other. I was talking more about if some beer drinking brawler took me down that I'd be able to sweep or sub him in a couple seconds. And 99.9% of guys wouldn't even know what a kimura, armbar, triangle, or sweep was.

If Robin Gracie were in an Irish pub in the midwest and some trailer trash, plaid shirt wearing brawler took him down the guy would be a sitting duck for a sweep or sub. If a pro fighter with lots of martial arts experience takes Robin Gracie down it's a different story altogether.
So bjj is plenty good for self defense on its own. For mma a more well rounded approach is needed.

It's all good Mr. Miyagi.
I did not mean what you say was wrong. Just wanted to point out that Robin Gracie had a bad fight. The French dude is a MMA professional afterall. He lost quiet a few fights .
But I did expected better from Robin. Riccio is a 6 x time Karate French Champion before going into professional MMA.
I am disapointed in robin performance because he did much more groung fighting than Riccio.
He actuallly advertise his Madrid club with the same Gracie Concept (open challenge) and he took it and I admire for it.
I do not want to take this thread to a Gracie Bashing level.

[wardancer]

Where do you train?

HI Creeper,
I train in New Zealand, Auckland.
Small country next to Australia.
Our website is www.etk.co.nz
I am very fortunate to have two brazilian black belt intructors in BJJ teaching us.
They are linked to the Brazilian Top Team.
We have organized the first open New Zealand BJJ Competition. Such event will take part every 3 months.
We are going to fight in the BJJ Competition in Australia in 3 months time after our second competition ( in August/September).
For us, it is a big deal to go oversea and fight. At the same time, we will keep promoting and organising national BJJ competition on a regular basis.
Our instructor is going to 'challenge'/set up a fight with the top Australian BJJ balck belt (who is a Brazilian, just forgot his name).
Our New Zealand Team will participate in the Australian BJJ tournament at their own respective belt level.
The third New Zealand BJJ Competion in 6 months around December is to be No-GI (submission figthing). That should create a lot of interest from media and other MA styles.
So far we have attracted Judo participants.
Who knows maybe other styles?
For MMA events, it is just a question of time..we are training in a Muy Thai Club afterall with K1 fighters that have represented their country in K1 fighting qualifications.
For me, fighting and promoting BJJ is good stuff!
Representing your own country in an overseas event is the best!
Cheers,

[CKD]

It's all good Mr. Miyagi.
I did not mean what you say was wrong. Just wanted to point out that Robin Gracie had a bad fight. The French dude is a MMA professional afterall. He lost quiet a few fights .
But I did expected better from Robin. Riccio is a 6 x time Karate French Champion before going into professional MMA.
I am disapointed in robin performance because he did much more groung fighting than Riccio.
He actuallly advertise his Madrid club with the same Gracie Concept (open challenge) and he took it and I admire for it.
I do not want to take this thread to a Gracie Bashing level.

Robin actually went to Riccio and beat the #@#$ out of him later. But of course one of Riccio's relatives had to try to shoot Robin and then go off saying that they teamed up against him, right. Robin was very confused in there first match because he had no clue he was pro and he had been preparing months before that match and decided to fight Robin after the seminar which he was tired from rolling with all the students.

[wardancer]

That could be true CKD.
But pro or no pro the Gracie challenge still stand?
I do not believe too much the Riccio version of the story but I do not believe the possibility of any gun shown either.
Afterall, that was a French small country city not NY?

[CKD]

I think the Gracie challenge still stands. Yes there was a gun pulled out in there second fight. Robin and Royce went for a re-match against Riccio. Robin defeated Riccio soundly and then one of Riccios brothers I believe pulled out a gun. Then everyone started running. Then once the whole world figured out Riccio made up a story about Royce and Robin jumping him and he holding them off and then they attacked his brother and then Royce tried to shoot him

[wardancer]

CKD it is all good. The re-match is all good.
But I have problem with the gun story, I have lived in france.
The guns are not as 'available' as NY?
Still could be possible but you must understand in France, you cannot own a gun like US.

[CKD]

Basically that was what was reported. Robin and Royce went to the bar the Riccios owned, Robin challenged Riccio to a re-match, Robin beats Riccio, and a gun went off. Nobody is sure who exactly fired it but it was thought to be one of Riccios brothers. Once the story got out Riccio made up a B.S story. Thats pretty much all I know about the re-match.