I dont know BJJ but whats the best way to get someone off the top of you?

[Tom Yum]

How do women practice BJJ if only guys are in class? You have to really try to not let anything bother.

Seems like most women who do BJJ are pretty serious about it and aren't bothered so much by having a guy in there guard - they are working hard just like all of the guys are. Likewise, most guys should give a little respect to women if they are in her guard. Be professional about it and try to help her learn the moves.

Practice good manners and etiquette when working with women.



Now if its Friday night and you've been out with your other lady friend and she wants to practice the mount at your place, that's another story...

[Andrew WA]

Yeah how else is a girl going to learn how to fight well unless she trains with whatever is available. It would probably be better for women to train with women or whatwever but what can you do?
I was practicing some stuff a few years ago and I had to be partnered up with this old mom and it was pretty gross...

[Tom Yum]

Old mom or 19 year old actress-model, you are there to help her learn jujitsu as she is there to help you. By being grossed out or over excited, no one is making progress.

[wardancer]

If they leave you a free hand some good strategies include:

Eye gouge with the thumb.
Spear hand to the throat.
Punch to the back of the neck if you have the angle.
Grab a bunch of hair and pull their head towards you while raising your head, aim forehead to nose. For extra hurtage yank really hard on their hair away from your head just after you complete the headbut.
Again if you have a good angle (you probably wont) the knee to the small of the back is also a favorite.

This is so wrong.
Anything that you cannot perform versus an unwilling sparring like the techniques you mentionned are down the drain the day you have to use them:
- you never used them versus a unwilling partner to the its full potential.
- you never used them under real pressure e.g someone is choking you.
- you do not know how much pressure to use to achieve results.
JJJ is full of it and they are no were in the MMA world.
Please, avoid us the sermon of how your techniques are so dangerous that they cannot be used in the ring: see the first UFCs.
All you can do is a demonstration of some assumptions that it might work.
It is not proven in a competitive environment day after day, it is useless: just stars dust in your eyes!

[cakegirl]

Hi everyone, here I am!

(It's only a matter of time until I show up on a thread once you guys start talking about training with women in grappling...)

Thanks, Tom, for pointing out the (I would have thought) obvious - that regardless of what your training partners look like, they are there to help you train, and you are there to help them train.

And Andrew, as far as having to "really try to not let anything bother"... I'm gonna quote/paraphrase what I posted on another forum...

I come up against the attitude of thinking you have to train differently/take it easy/avoid touching certain areas when your partner is female with a fair degree of regularity, given that I'm the only woman at my BJJ club. When the new guys come, they always seem to have the above attitude, which just makes it frustrating for me because I'm trying to grapple someone who is 1) not grappling properly, and 2) not thinking about the grappling (He's thinking "Go for the choke - no - wait - don't - there's a breast near there! Argh! BOOOOOOBIES!")

As I say to these guys (and as the guys that I train with on a regular basis already know) - if I was worried about a guy touching me during training, I wouldn't be doing BJJ. I'd be doing knitting, or some other non-contact hobby. But I'm not. I'm grappling, and in grappling, people get very close, and that's the whole point of the sport. So I don't think anyone's doing any favours by having a big Male/Female divide as far as their behaviour goes.

[Andrew WA]

I come up against the attitude of thinking you have to train differently/take it easy/avoid touching certain areas when your partner is female with a fair degree of regularity, given that I'm the only woman at my BJJ club. When the new guys come, they always seem to have the above attitude, which just makes it frustrating for me because I'm trying to grapple someone who is 1) not grappling properly, and 2) not thinking about the grappling (He's thinking "Go for the choke - no - wait - don't - there's a breast near there! Argh! BOOOOOOBIES!")

Haha! Well honestly its kind of hard not to think like that for me. I have a lot of respect for women and dont want to take advantage of them. I just am a modest type of guy. But I guess if I really tried hard I could overcome that and train hard with a girl if I had too.
Also as long as the girl is totally sexy and tries to show it all the time then I would be better at overcoming this attitude.

[SimonM]

This is so wrong.
Anything that you cannot perform versus an unwilling sparring like the techniques you mentionned are down the drain the day you have to use them:
- you never used them versus a unwilling partner to the its full potential.
- you never used them under real pressure e.g someone is choking you.
- you do not know how much pressure to use to achieve results.
JJJ is full of it and they are no were in the MMA world.
Please, avoid us the sermon of how your techniques are so dangerous that they cannot be used in the ring: see the first UFCs.
All you can do is a demonstration of some assumptions that it might work.
It is not proven in a competitive environment day after day, it is useless: just stars dust in your eyes!

Ah the cry of the rulebound. Have you ever been eyegouged? I have and it hurts like a bitch with very little pressure. My eye survived undamaged in the end but the question wasn't "How do I shatter someone's eye?" it was "How do I get someone off of me?" and trust me it would take a pretty rough character to ignore a thumb in the eye. As for headbuts - I have used them in sparring, you just have to find the right partner. And I don't give a shit about "deadly techniques" I just care about surviving the melee and lets face it, unsportsmanly moves like the headbut and the eye-gouge are illegal in the UFC; eye gouges have been all along if my memory serves. An octagon is not the street, it is not a bar and it is not a schoolyard. Don't always buy the Gracie line, it makes you as bad as the Radical Qi wierdos. BTW: JJJ was a great martial art and if I recall it eventually beat Helio - broken arm ring any bells?

[Tom Yum]

Broken arms can happen in BJJ as well. You get someone in an armbar who doesn't tap or who executes it too powerfully and snap. About every limb can brake in different BJJ submission hold.

The difference between BJJ and JJJ...I'm no expert, but people tell me that BJJ does a little more ground work on the assumption that a stronger fighter, such as a wrestler or a strongman will put you there.

JJJ does groundwork too, but they don't use clever mobility as much to set up their moves; instead they attack something vital to get a response and use that response to set up the move. Many other traditional martial arts follow this theory...aikijujitsu, hapkido, chin na. They have allmost identical finishing holds as BJJ, but use strikes to weak spots to set them up or strength.

The thing is that you can't execute dirty moves at 100% in the dojo, because your classmate needs to come back too. You can simulate it, but not use it like you would if in a public place.

The dirty moves will work, but it depends.

Just a note - in UFC 1, Gerard Gordeau, a top ranked savate and muay thai fighter bit Royce Gracies ear. A dirty move, which causes a lot of bleeding. Gracie kept his focus and eventually pulled Gordeau into a rear naked choke.

When Gordeau tried to tap, Gracie didn't let go...

[Tom Yum]

The poke and choke:

Pros: Dirty moves will do damage iff they land properly and could cause a reaction that would help you set up your finishing hold or buy time to do something else.

Cons: You can't execute them during practice. You assume they will work and they will probably work, but there's a small chance that they won't. If it doesn't work in one instance, you have no leverage.

Position based submission:

Pros: If your skill is enough to earn you good position, the finishing hold can be executed allmost perfectly even against stronger, tougher and resisting opponents.

Cons: You spend more time on the ground.

[SimonM]

The poke and choke:

You assume they will work and they will probably work, but there's a small chance that they won't execute perfectly.

Yes but that is the case with all techniques. There is NO perfect technique; nothing always works. I've seen just about any technique you can name fail at some point in time. Vulnerable points are vulnerable points, they have large clusters of pain receptors are soft-tissue and are subject to damage. People who refuse to believe that an eye gouge won't serve a purpose because of the absence of one-eyed martial artists are just limiting their own options. Also the Glasgow kiss and the thumb in the eye require less training than the reverse naked choke so for SD where defense skills should be imparted with rapidity such "dirty moves" are agood place to start.

[Tom Yum]

I agree that headbutts, thumbs to the eye and biting are great self-defense moves. If they land, they will do instant damage, are quick and easy to learn and a great place to start for general self-defense.

Many of Bruce Lee's self defense techniques in his book "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" show that he was also a fan of spearing the eyes, clapping the ears and ripping at the groin. Before he came to the states he studied wingchun but also learned the fundamentals of hung-gar and taiji so I guess these moves come from that and his street fighting experience in HK.

At the same time, he trained with grappling expert Judo Gene Labell to give him real-time work on the ground.

[Tant01]

.... BTW: JJJ was a great martial art and if I recall it eventually beat Helio - broken arm ring any bells?

JJJ??? That was a JUDOKA that got Ude garami on him... They named bent armbars after him in GJJ.... "Kimura" ring any bells?

Traditional Ju-jutsu is a blanket term for "old school," anymore you will be hard pressed to find a guy that knows the difference between Tantojutsu and Hojutsu.

Jujutsu ??? Daito-ryu, Araki-ryu, Seigo-ryu, Tenshin Shinyo-ryu, Sosuishitsu-ryu, Takagi Hontai Yoshin-ryu, Kito-ryu???


No? Then it's probably "just" JUDO....

[Tom Yum]

JJJ??? That was a JUDOKA that got Ude garami on him... They named bent armbars after him in GJJ.... "Kimura" ring any bells?

Traditional Ju-jutsu is a blanket term for "old school," anymore you will be hard pressed to find a guy that knows the difference between Tantojutsu and Hojutsu.

Jujutsu ??? Daito-ryu, Araki-ryu, Seigo-ryu, Tenshin Shinyo-ryu, Sosuishitsu-ryu, Takagi Hontai Yoshin-ryu, Kito-ryu???


No? Then it's probably "just" JUDO....

Hey Tant, did you write a post a while back explaining the different traditional japanese jujitsu styles?

If you did, can you post a link to it?

Thks

[Tant01]

Hey Tant, did you write a post a while back explaining the different traditional japanese jujitsu styles?

If you did, can you post a link to it?

Thks

No but I'd like to read it...

Do you recall the thread? or when it was posted?

[Tom Yum]

No but I'd like to read it...

Do you recall the thread? or when it was posted?

No but I think in several posts you were explaining the differences between the different branches of JJ...it was a while back.