I dont know BJJ but whats the best way to get someone off the top of you?

[Tant01]

Nope, you must be confusing me with someone else, i'm still kinda new to DMA Forums...

[SimonM]

Many of Bruce Lee's self defense techniques in his book "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" show that he was also a fan of spearing the eyes, clapping the ears and ripping at the groin.

Well yeah - Yip Man was his Sifu so I imagine that such techniques were preferred by Bruce.

[cakegirl]

Haha! Well honestly its kind of hard not to think like that for me. I have a lot of respect for women and dont want to take advantage of them. I just am a modest type of guy. But I guess if I really tried hard I could overcome that and train hard with a girl if I had too.
Also as long as the girl is totally sexy and tries to show it all the time then I would be better at overcoming this attitude.

1. if you can't overcome problematic thinking, maybe you're not grown-up enough to be playing martial arts.
2. modesty has nothing to do with it. It's an issue of respect, and once again, if you can't respect a training partner unless she's sexy and shows off (where is modesty?), then you have no respect.

[Tant01]

1. if you can't overcome problematic thinking, maybe you're not grown-up enough to be playing martial arts.
2. modesty has nothing to do with it. It's an issue of respect, and once again, if you can't respect a training partner unless she's sexy and shows off (where is modesty?), then you have no respect.

Perhaps he means if the girl in the class is wearing a thong and bikini top under her Gi it's kinda questionable as to HER professionalism...

Respect works both ways in a co-ed MA class.

[wardancer]

Ah the cry of the rulebound. Have you ever been eyegouged? Don't always buy the Gracie line, it makes you as bad as the Radical Qi wierdos. BTW: JJJ was a great martial art and if I recall it eventually beat Helio - broken arm ring any bells?

Being eyegouged once does not mean you have expertise for it and can train for either LOL I can imagine you and your mates poking each other etc...
I am not a Gracie members or affiliate either.
So lets get to the point: Kimura broke Helio during a challenge fight. Kimura was a very sucessfull Judoka that fought his way throught the very competitive Judo Japanese world. Helio never actually trained under Master Maeda (only his older brothers did).
But back then Kimura (a Judo champion) used to fight in challenge match versus other styles meaning anything goes forget about UFC. sucj fight were common back like waht did Mas Oyama. e.g For Kimura, the Helio fight was nothing compare to some of the fight Kimura had versus real tought strikers back in Brazil.
Do yourselves a favour and get some books about his life?
Or you might be more busy doing some poking the eye stuff?

[wardancer]

1. if you can't overcome problematic thinking, maybe you're not grown-up enough to be playing martial arts.
2. modesty has nothing to do with it. It's an issue of respect, and once again, if you can't respect a training partner unless she's sexy and shows off (where is modesty?), then you have no respect.

One of my teammate had a real problem with sparring with females: he just could not get himslef to choke them, no disrepect really.
When i roll versus a lighter partner (male or female), i just simply play buttom and defend versus the attacks by respect. It is a good practice for sweeps etc..
Using too much physical power is counter-productive in BJJ because you always will find someone is bigger than you.
I actually hate the lazy overweight dudes that prays on the side-control (crushing your face with their shoulder) waiting until the lighter fighter just gass out!!
I just try to 'shrimp' in with palms on their noises/eyes/face and shove my knees in thier ribs trying to re-establish a half-guard.

[SimonM]

I tell you what, try staying in mount while somebody jams their thumb in your eye and tell me if your eyeballs are steel ballberrings or just sacks of jelly like everyone elses.

[Tant01]

I tell you what, try staying in mount while somebody jams their thumb in your eye and tell me if your eyeballs are steel ballberrings or just sacks of jelly like everyone elses.

Only one problem with that Simon.... Try it yourself and tell me, CAN YOU REACH HIS EYES FROM THERE? No. Sorry, got any other good ideas?

[SimonM]

Assuming he is good enough to keep on both my hands while simultaneously trying to apply some sort of lock or hold. That is where ability to navigate the ground becomes important.

[Tant01]

Assuming he is good enough to keep on both my hands while simultaneously trying to apply some sort of lock or hold. That is where ability to navigate the ground becomes important.

No, what I'm telling you is that you can't REACH his head from that position. His posture alone will keep his eyes beyond your grasp. The lock or hold will usually follow your attempt to do something like THAT!

[SimonM]

No, what I'm telling you is that you can't REACH his head from that position. His posture alone will keep his eyes beyond your grasp. The lock or hold will usually follow your attempt to do something like THAT!

Well that depends, I've seen lots of people lean RIGHT into people from mount, very little distance at all between their head and their opponent's hands. This may be a mistake, I'm not 100% sure, but people do it all the time. All I'm saying is that dirty fighting tricks can and do work in real fights every day, only a fool says that they don't just because his sensei/sifu/coach told him so.

[Tom Yum]

Well that depends, I've seen lots of people lean RIGHT into people from mount, very little distance at all between their head and their opponent's hands. This may be a mistake, I'm not 100% sure, but people do it all the time. All I'm saying is that dirty fighting tricks can and do work in real fights every day, only a fool says that they don't just because his sensei/sifu/coach told him so.

9 times out of 10, a BJJ/judo/wrestler will stay high on the mount if they get it and rain punches down on the bottom persons head. The bottom guy can try to strike the eyes if he can make one or two of the punches miss, but the trade off is the bottom gives up his arms and if he misses the eye strike, he'll open up for an arm bar or various chokes.

The mount is difficult to escape. Adding punches on the way down from a heavier opponent and its very difficult. Bridging the mount can work, but it has to be fast, especially against bigger dudes. Other than practicing the bridge maneuver, conditioning plays a role too.

I can see the eye gouge being more effective when the top person brings his head closer to the bottom persons. This might happen in a rape scenario, so this is where it could be effective.

[SimonM]

9 times out of 10, a BJJ/judo/wrestler will stay high on the mount if they get it and rain punches down on the bottom persons head.

You see I'd agree that is smarter than pulling in close for a sleve choke or something each time but... I don't know, mabey it is just the JJ/Judo schools in my area or something.

The mount is difficult to escape. Adding punches on the way down from a heavier opponent and its very difficult. Bridging the mount can work, but it has to be fast, especially against bigger dudes. Other than practicing the bridge maneuver, conditioning plays a role too.

I can see the eye gouge being more effective when the top person brings his head closer to the bottom persons. This might happen in a rape scenario, so this is where it could be effective.

And it was a SD scenario, not an NHB match I was refering to. I do not disagree with anything you said in the above quote.

[Andrew WA]

ok

2. modesty has nothing to do with it. It's an issue of respect, and once again, if you can't respect a training partner unless she's sexy and shows off (where is modesty?), then you have no respect

Easy there cakegirl. Do I sense some attitude? I hope you know how to read correctly, because I said "IF A GIRL IS ACTING ALL SEXY AND TOO MUCH LIKE THAT THEN SHE NEEDS TO NOT BE THAT WAY" basically I think women need to be modest big time if they want my respect.

I would rather fight with another guy personally unless I was good friends with another girl who I could be mutual with. I dont mind fighting a girl if I have to, the point is I dont want to do it. Its not me not being professional. Its just really odd for me. but if you insist and you are the only girl and im partnered up with you I will be sure not to have any sort of weird feelings as I grab your boobs and your butt a lot and I hope it will be mutual and you will not be offended because all I would be doing is grappeling with you. I wouldnt be grabbing those places on purpose im just saying it could happen if I need to do something.

This reminds me of a weird porn movie haha!

[Tant01]

Well that depends, I've seen lots of people lean RIGHT into people from mount, very little distance at all between their head and their opponent's hands. This may be a mistake, I'm not 100% sure, but people do it all the time. All I'm saying is that dirty fighting tricks can and do work in real fights every day, only a fool says that they don't just because his sensei/sifu/coach told him so.

This is true. The bottom guy needs to attack what he can reach or escape the position or put the other guy in a less dominant position that you can more easily attack or escape from.

My point is if the guy on top is in the full mount you're in a hurtfull way.
He can reach you but you can not reach him. I'm not repeating something I was told nor do I expect you to believe ME. I said before, GO TRY IT for yourself my friend and tell me if you can reach his eyes! It's easier to practice breaking arms than to PRACTICE scooping out the orbits!