BJJ isnt that good

[Andrew WA]

BJJ is a good start, but now that most people in MMA understand its inner workings, you need to really expand your game. Hence, you have a guy who learned to grapple through videos beating a BJJ black belt in the last pride!

Are you serious??? A guy just watched videos and it actually got him good enough to defeat a BJJ blackbelt?? HAHA!! DAAANG!! I can never learn off of a video!

[Yu Law]

Wow, who was it?

[bodhisattva]

At straight blast gym, we have guys that learned from videos, and got very, very good.

I thnk I heard someone say John Kavanaugh learned that way, but I can't recall for sure.

A man can learn from tapes, if he's willing to fight in a realistic context to learn the material.

That is what is wrong with traditional classes. They don't fight. Fighting is the only teacher.

You guys simply need to go to a BJJ gym and give it a try. You'll find yourselves quickly pinned, choked, and arm barred.

You're just talking talk. You can't walk the walk.

[bodhisattva]

grappling is mandatory to a serious fighter. BJJ just happens to be a very efficient and economical form of grappling.

well put.

But having just a BJJ background, especially gi-only training, is limited in its scope.

agreed, as well.

Bruce Lee and Mas Oyama probably never had the chance to fight master submission artists...

Bruce definitely fought (and learned from) Gene LaBelle. Mas Oyama, I'm sure he too had contact with highly qualified Judo Players..? Just a guess on that one.

but both of them were progressive enough in their thinking that I assure you they would cross train an art like BJJ.

Totally agree, too.

An Art is a toolbox...and sometimes the tools you have can't fix a problem...so it's best to expand your set...right?!

Not entirely. "Technique collectors" don't tend to do well in real situations. Better to study the fundamentals from every possible angle (and in that, the variations are the different tools).. I would prefer to have few tools, with much depth of knowledge, in all 3 ranges (up, clinch, down) than many tools, with shallow knowledge of each of them.

[pstevens]

Are you serious??? A guy just watched videos and it actually got him good enough to defeat a BJJ blackbelt?? HAHA!! DAAANG!! I can never learn off of a video!

Excuse me, I'm sorry... It was UFC 51. Evan Tanner beat Carley Gracie Black Belt David Terrell. According to sources, Tanner learned 90% of this submissions from videos! Here's a link about his profile.

http://www.mmareview.com/mmareview-profile-evan_tanner.htm

It just goes to show just how far MMA has come.

[bodhisattva]

Tanner didn't "learn from tapes". He learned SUBMSSIONS FROM TAPES.

Tanner was a wrestler all throughout highschool.

Tanner was a STATE CHAMPION WRESTLER. He was the BEST WRESTLER IN HIS WEIGHT CLASS IN HIS WHOLE STATE.

Tanner was a TWO TIMES STATE CHAMPION. That means, his Junior year in highschool, he was good enough to beat out the best seniors in his WHOLE STATE.

He DID IT AGAIN his senior year.

That is very, very different from saying "some guy who learned from tapes beat a gracie black belt".

READ the bio YOURSELF.

Any wrestler that FORITIFIES his delivery system with BJJ knowledge is going to be a very good fighter indeed.

ESPECIALY a state champion! Especially a TWO TIMES state champion!

ANY fighter of ANY KIND that fortifies his knowledge with BJJ techniques is going to grow much stronger.

I don't see how this is really anything against BJJ at all, it sounds more like you guys are supporting BJJ. If a wrestler ADDED IT TO HIS GAME, and went on to MMA success, then obviously BJJ is some powerful medicine indeed.

He didn't learn from tapes. He was a STATE CHAMPION WRESTLER..who ADDED BJJ to his game, by watching tapes. That is very VERY different from saying "some guy who only learned from tapes beat a black belt"...

Read the bio yourself. Jeez. It's all right there.

[pstevens]

Tanner was a state level wrestler in high school.

In high school... crap, you're comparing high school wrestling to a black belt in BJJ! If high school wrestler can beat a black belt in BJJ, heck, what does that say?!

He didn't learn from tapes, you freaking morons. He was a STATE CHAMPION WRESTLER..who ADDED BJJ to his game.

Maybe you should read the bio and watch UFC 51. It was stated that he learned from Gracie Jiu Jitsu videos. Beside, learning submissions from videos with a high school wrestling background is pretty impressive when you beat a Black Belt in BJJ.

Anyway, you’re missing the point. While MMA has continued to improve, BJJ has gone back to lingering in mysticism... It’s becoming outdated as shown by recent MMA events - Grapplers with good striking abilities are emerging as the top tier fighters.

I see BJJ headed the same way Judo, Karate, TKD and all other mcdojo have gone - up in smoke.

[pstevens]

I don't see how this is really anything against BJJ at all, it sounds more like you guys are supporting BJJ. If a wrestler ADDED IT TO HIS GAME, and went on to MMA success, then obviously BJJ is some powerful medicine indeed.

Bohdi,

As usual, your logic never ceases to amaze me.... Let me see, if a high school wrestler learns some BJJ from videos then beats a BJJ black belt, then BJJ must have been the reason he won? Well, then what does that say about the BJJ black belt? The only difference here is that one guy has a high school wrestling background... You do the math.

[bodhisattva]

Good grappling is good grappling.

Bjj is some good grappling.

High school wrestling is some good grappling.

Add BJJ submissions to it, and a state champion is a badass wrestler indeed.

I did the math.

Arrogant, aren't ya, fella?

Eat poopies.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

The straight armbar is one of my best moves.


Damn the luck...

[Ronson]

Tanner didn't get to the big dance just by watching tapes. He had a great background and base and had a little help from some no-name team called Team Quest and some crappy fighters like Matt Lindland and Randy Couture.

[KotoRyu]

Excuse me, I'm sorry... It was UFC 51. Evan Tanner beat Carley Gracie Black Belt David Terrell. According to sources, Tanner learned 90% of this submissions from videos! Here's a link about his profile.

http://www.mmareview.com/mmareview-profile-evan_tanner.htm

It just goes to show just how far MMA has come.

Tanner won that fight by TKO though.

[Screamtruth]

2. 90% fights go to the ground. Not true unless you live on a completely flat town. Most fights go to the clinch, against a wall, table, etc... Then they may go to the ground.

3. The Gi game is more technical - Not true either. No gi is just as technical, but faster and harder (in my opinion).

BJJ is a good start, but now that most people in MMA understand its inner workings, you need to really expand your game. Hence, you have a guy who learned to grapple through videos beating a BJJ black belt in the last pride!

I'd have to say that if a fighter really wants you down, it's pretty hard to stop it, but, then again, I do not have the best take down defense either.
I have to agree with the no gi game being harder, check out Eddie Bravo's website and videos; He's definitley added some nuts to the no gi game.

[pstevens]

I'd have to say that if a fighter really wants you down, it's pretty hard to stop it, but, then again, I do not have the best take down defense either.

Actually, if you paid attention to MMA, takedowns are becoming harder to come by against good fighters. Mark Coleman couldn't take down Cro Cop. Chuck Liddel is known for his ability to stop the takedown. Tito couldn't take Vitor down, until the very end. In fact, fighters have gone to great lengths to re-invent takedown strategies because people are so good at defending them now! Heck, even I've become good at defending takedowns!

[Tant01]

The straight armbar is one of my best moves.


Damn the luck...

I'm thinking of variations of this armbar. There are LOTS of ways to apply a straight arm lock. Across your shoulder, stomach, on the ground with a knee or the typical Jujigatame (cross armlock) just a tiny sample of the many possibilities...

http://www.judoinfosite.nl/NL/pages/Armklemmen/Hara-gatame.htm

Transitions are also abundant (A way to get there from here) The basic cross armlock from the mount or... http://www.judoinfosite.nl/NL/pages/...hen-garami.htm