what grappeling arts are the best for mma and self-defense

[BoarSpear]

I too separate self-defense from MMA. MMA guys go at it 110% while self-defense classes dwell in hypotheticals: "grab my wrist and I'll twist you like this, so that you fall down." "Stab me with a downward motion, so I can defend this way, and do this and that."

MMA guys would crush SD guys in a fight.

.......................... Because youre all so good at beating each other up huh?

Exactly what aspect of MMA gives it such a supreme edge in the street?

What does MMA have that NO self defense trained fighter has?

what part of competing in a one on one sport in a ring, equates to multiple opponents who are armed in the street? How does your practicing one on one unarmed rule-bound sports, better prepare you for a life and death struggle in the street with weapons and no rules?

[Eyegouge]

I second what boar says and look forward to an your answers......

[pstevens]

I second what boar says and look forward to an your answers......

I already did... Actual fighting vs hypothetical fighting... take your pick.

[danfaggella]

im not taking sides, but hes right, MMA guys train harder and longer than a good majority of SD fellows, and SD is usually very hypothetical, (IE: yo cant eye gouge while you spar, you can understand when and how it might happen, though)

[Eyegouge]

Do you think that SD fighter's haven't ever been jumped, or had someone attempt to rob them or take them outside the bar to whoop on em? My kempo instructor had to fight a guy who was flying on PCP. He smashed the guys nutz and the guy kept coming, didn't even feel it. He had to put him down hard and he did it. Just because SD students and instructors don't fight for a living dosen't mean they haven't ever fought or put their techniques to the test.

[BoarSpear]

I already did... Actual fighting vs hypothetical fighting... take your pick.

You mean actually defending yourself from multiple opponents and armed opponents outside the ring? VS putting on special clothes and protective gear and competing in a ring for money? Somehow I think the person who studys the use of firearms, edged weapons, expediant weapons and of course turning himself into a weapon has an edge over a guy who does the opposite. I could be mistaken, but i dont think so. A properly trained SD guy studies the threats he is likely to encounter and trains for those situations. MMA trains for a world with rules and without multiple opponents or weapons, SD trains for no rules and weapons...

you want to learn to beat people up? learn MMA. Thats all most people really want anyway, is to learn to beat people up.

You want to learn how to keep someone from killing you? Beating them up isnt the best way to do it.

Learning MMA wont help you in a carjacking, hijacking, or home invasion etc.

The skills a good SD program teaches can save your life. Its all in what you want out of your investment in time.

I see no reason not to do both, however MMA people prefer the "bullet proof shield" defense Helio advocates

[JkD187]

mma vs street is a dumb debate:different circumstances use different tactics but the techniques/attributes do not change at all.A punch is a punch a kick is a kick n armbar is an armbar weither your applying it in mma or the street.....for the street you DO NOT want to take it down but you may be forced into that position so you must learn grappling along with clinching and striking.In a street fight your first mindset should be set to escape....or fight untill an escape route is open....in the ring you fight to ko or sub....but the techniques are the same and dont change....also as far as bites gouges etc, they do you no good unless you have experence in the area you are trying to fight in....learn to fight then just add the dirt,Being a fast runner also helps alot .

[Eyegouge]

for the street you DO NOT want to take it down but you may be forced into that position so you must learn grappling along with clinching and striking

If you just got jumped by 5 guys and you get taken down to the ground. You're done homie. All I gotta say. I don't disagree with you completely, you said some real intelligent things but if your on the ground belly or back and you have 5 people hell bent on kicking your ass. You arn't getting up.

[BoarSpear]

im not taking sides, but hes right, MMA guys train harder and longer than a good majority of SD fellows, and SD is usually very hypothetical, (IE: yo cant eye gouge while you spar, you can understand when and how it might happen, though)

I have fought people armed with bottles, knives, pool cues, cue balls, chairs and midgets (had one thrown at me) and i have some nice scars to show for it.

It wasnt very hypothetical then and it isnt now, if you dont know how to use a weapon, and you encounter someone with that weapon, he will be able to use it on you. MMA does not practice against weapons...the FMA's for instance do, Paul Vunak certainly trains the knife yet people are betting on Chuck Liddel in an "all out streetfight." thats ego talking not common sense.

owning a knife doesnt make you a knifefighter btw anymore than owning a gi makes you a master. it isnt that hard to adapt your ground game to include the knife, trust me it wont kill you to try it, but not trying might get you killed if you get attacked outside the ring and you have no idea how to use or defend the blade.

[JkD187]

yep that is true to some extent but when you are out of high school the possibility of getting jumped by five people diminish alot....unless you get into a bar or club fight with a guy who travles around with alot of friends or you just get jumped by a gang which usually happens when you kno someone from it and you have probs with them.Its not as hard as you may think though to get up, if you value life or your good looks youll use every bit of enegry you have along with your burst of adreline to get up while eating a few kicks along the way and running for your life.The chances of this happening though are much higher then disarming people though, to escape a jumping i give it a 60/40 chance but disarms id prob go with 80/20.

[JkD187]

good points by boarspear...also in life or death it would be vunak by multi knife stabs .....but i think i would rather be outta that situation then try n knife fight but im sure u kno that its not always that easy.

[BoarSpear]

mma vs street is a dumb debate:different circumstances use different tactics but the techniques/attributes do not change at all.A punch is a punch a kick is a kick n armbar is an armbar weither your applying it in mma or the street.....for the street you DO NOT want to take it down but you may be forced into that position so you must learn grappling along with clinching and striking.In a street fight your first mindset should be set to escape....or fight untill an escape route is open....in the ring you fight to ko or sub....but the techniques are the same and dont change....also as far as bites gouges etc, they do you no good unless you have experence in the area you are trying to fight in....learn to fight then just add the dirt,Being a fast runner also helps alot .

Gotta disagree, yes a punch is a punch, however punches suck as weapons. The kicks thrown in the ring, and therfore emphasized, dont end fights either.

doubt those two statements? how long do your matches last? dont you have resting periods (rounds)? that isnt efficient.

Kicks aimed at shattering knees are fight stoppers, you guys dont do that for obvious reasons. palm strikes to the throat and chin arent used in the ring either, niether are strikes to the brainstem. Some systems spend most of thier striking time doing just those things, but they are all for the street or military.
The strikes do travel different "lines" than those you practice for the ring.

[JkD187]

lol imma have to disagree a bit also.....a trained boxers punch will ko any average chump....im not a great boxer but i am a very good one and have ko'd people with one punch on the street 95% of the time.....palm strikes are very usefull and are used alot...(bas rutten.....joe hurley....sakuraba) my matches personaly dont usually last longet then a min....pro mma matches last a long time bc they are bolth excellent fighters who have great offense/defense.Thai kicks work wonders....i have put people in agony with just 1 kick after that kick they couldnt walk for days......strikes to anywhere on the body were used in the earlier ufc's and i dont kno exactly where the brainstem is but im pretty sure its sumwhere on your neck/back of the head area...people have been punched and elbowed many times there to no avail.Im not saying that these techniques are not usefull, however i personaly have not seen them work but if you can make em work more power to you my friend.

[JkD187]

o and i almost forgot.....the marines....army and airforce all use mma type techniques.Its a mix of boxing,muay thai,bjj,judo and some wrestling.....its modified a bit to include minset training. check www.sherdog.com for a summary of an event they just had.

[BoarSpear]

o and i almost forgot.....the marines....army and airforce all use mma type techniques.Its a mix of boxing,muay thai,bjj,judo and some wrestling.....its modified a bit to include minset training. check www.sherdog.com for a summary of an event they just had.

Im third generation military in a family full of military H2H instructors, I am versed in everything from Biddle foward. The new systems are a joke its sad to see, american soldiers will die do to poor h2h because of marketing.