Who is dumb enough to purposely go to the ground in a streetfight.

[Ronin]

My take:

1. You need functional Striking skills (Boxing, etc.)

2. You need functional Groundfighting skills (BJJ, etc.)

3. You need adequate Wrestling/Judo skills and balance to resist takedowns as well as perform the occasional reap or throw. Staying on your feet is the ideal situation.

4. You need to learn to fight dirty, using bites, eye-gouges, groin attacks, and other "illegal" techniques.

5. You need weapons training, including disarms and how to use a knife and a handgun. Carrying a legal weapon isn't a bad idea, as long as you know what you are doing.

6. You need superb stamina and speed in order to fight and escape multiple attackers if necessary. Strength doesn't hurt either. Therefore, you need to be in great shape at all times.

7. Most importantly, you need to develop the mind-set of a defensive streetfighter...a very alert, paranoid individual who is looking for a street attack at all times. Most of us fit this profile. You need to learn to spot traps, ambush points, threatening individuals, etc. Then you need to learn how to avoid, defuse, evade, and counterattack. Training in First Aid, Criminology, Combat Psychology, and Basic Strategy wouldn't hurt either. And you need to emotionally condition yourself to really inflict pain, injury, or death on someone who wants to take your life.

If you can't do all of these things competently, you aren't a real fighter. You're a poser. Personally, I am a long way from competent in most of those areas. But I'm improving.

Start now. It will take a life-time.

[Ryu (non-working password]

Ronin,
How have you been? Haven't seen you here in ages.

[guardman]

Originally posted by Pit Dog
Guardman:

One - It will be a happy day for forum members here when you stop the inane and annoying habit of quoting people's entire posts.

Two - The difference between your theory and my reality is the fact when a person is standing and sees multiple attackers, he can RUN or move and increase his chances of escaping. A person can't see a freaking thing from fighting on the ground, and he sure as hell can't move from this TOTALLY-COMMITTED position as effectively even if he can see.

Get in some more streetfights and then come talk to me ... after you stop the annoying habit of quoting entire posts. Are you Tez?

Regards.

simmer down you don't know me therefore you don't know how many fights i've had. and its obvious you don't do any groundfighting to even understand its effectiveness. if you don't like the way i post. don't answer. attack what i'm saying and not me especially if you don't know me. secondly, if you are getting jumped you'll be stopped regardless on the ground or standing. your time to decide whehter or not you'll run is before you fight and you relize oh shit too many gys i may get my ass kicked. but you are already engaged you can get jumped whether you are standing or on the ground.

[Edited by guardman on 12-30-2000 at 02:56 PM]

[Twisted up]

Ryu's post

Ryu: Excellent post! I agree with everything you said.

The problem with most folks is that they train and train but they've never even seen or much less, BEEN in a REAL fight. People have no clue as to how fast, frenetic and VIOLENT real fights are.

There is no give and take. People in fights can take MUCH punishment! The adrenal dump makes many nearly impervious to pain. People just don't understand.

I like what you said about running. If you have the chance, you'd be STUPID not to get the hell out of a place where shit is starting. No point in fighting if you don't have to.

Of course like I said, you may get jumped. That's often the case. When a person gets jumped, the range they end up in often depends on the skills of the person who is doing the "jumping". Is he a wrestler, boxer? Is he tall and thin, shorter and heavy? People attack according to what natural strengths they know they possess.

The bottom line is, all the talk about what strategy to take is a MOOT point (especially when you've just been jumped!).

Train realistically. Train how YOU want (the individual). No two people will ever agree upon everything. Don't try and convince me that your way is best--ONLY USING WORDS! I don't listen well! I like to SEE what works.


Good training to all!

John

[Ryu (non-working password]

Twisted up,
thanks for the post. I have been in a few fights, and I guess I just wanted to point out that if you are going to get jumped it will happen whether or not you're on the ground. Pit Dog is right in that standing you have a better chance of escaping, but ESCAPING should be on your mind. If you try to box 4 guys at once, you're gone.
But also, fights are not always the tuffest guys in the world. One punch may take someone out, people sometimes don't jump on you and just stay in a circle and watch.
Grappling will work sometimes, striking works sometimes.
People should train hard, be in great shape, carry a weapon, and above all STAY OUT OF TROUBLE!

Take a look at my humor thread above.

Ryu

[Pit Dog]

Goofman:
Simmer down? LOL, I am relaxed and wearing a pair of sweats with a warm cup of coffe. I'm not mad at you, I'm just rolling my eyes at you and I continue to do so.

Why do you say it is "obvious" I haven't done any groundfighting? LOL, I've done plenty. I've trained w/ Royce, Rickson, & Fabio Santos.

The *truly* obvious thing is the fact YOU haven't been in many hardcore streetfights. The thought of mobility and peripherial vision didn't even occur to you. To say you can't run and move while standing is not necessarily true either. Sometimes, maybe, but only if you are clueless and committing too much.

In a streetfight, you should always hit first, hardest, and last ... but keep an eye out for being grabbed from behind, etc.

Twisted:
I have seen very few fights involving "predators" who jump people. Most fights I see are in crowds and involve liquored-up macho men with attitudes.

[Mad Dog]

Retard...

[Ryu (non-working password]

LOL,
Looks like we're going to have our very own DOG FIGHT!!!

Pit, are you up to the challenge that Mad Dog has issued?

[guardman]

Re: Fighting, JKD and jiu-jitsu

Originally posted by Twisted up
First, I NEVER, EVER intend on getting into a fight.

Second, I train with an epmhasis on knowing ALL ranges.

Third, if you're attacked, it is likely going to be by a PREDATOR who is unwilling to give you a FAIR fight. With that being said, you CANNOT predict what range you're going to be in when the shit hits the fan. YOU MAY get tackled!

If I am tackled, I want NOTHING other than the concepts of Brazilian jiu-jitsu to keep me safe, until I can escape.

Because I train in all "3" ranges, I am ready to defend myself REGARDLESS of the range I may find myself in.

To go to the ground willingly is a SPORT method of fighting. In the street, momentum may take two combatants to the ground. Either way, when grappling happens I'm prepared for it.

That is MY take on Brazilian (Gracie) jiu-jitsu. The INDIVIDUAL must "personalize" a style and make it work for THEM. Not the other way around.

So, if you don't like the way Royce or other people "used" their jiu-jitsu, don't do it that way--do it YOUR way.

Oh yeah one other thing, boxing is something that ANY serious combat athlete should undertake to enhance his skills on his feet. For offense AND DEFENSE in particular.

Good training to all!

John

[Edited by Twisted up on 12-30-2000 at 12:42 PM]

good point well put

[guardman]

Originally posted by Pit Dog
Goofman:
Simmer down? LOL, I am relaxed and wearing a pair of sweats with a warm cup of coffe. I'm not mad at you, I'm just rolling my eyes at you and I continue to do so.

Why do you say it is "obvious" I haven't done any groundfighting? LOL, I've done plenty. I've trained w/ Royce, Rickson, & Fabio Santos.

The *truly* obvious thing is the fact YOU haven't been in many hardcore streetfights. The thought of mobility and peripherial vision didn't even occur to you. To say you can't run and move while standing is not necessarily true either. Sometimes, maybe, but only if you are clueless and committing too much.

In a streetfight, you should always hit first, hardest, and last ... but keep an eye out for being grabbed from behind, etc.

Twisted:
I have seen very few fights involving "predators" who jump people. Most fights I see are in crowds and involve liquored-up macho men with attitudes.

my man....this is retarded...i'm not going to go back and forth with bullshit like this. i never said you can't run or move while standing. what i'm saying is if you commit yourself to a fight while standing you can get caught with anything just as much. the point is to fight your fight and fight how you know how. on a brighter note what did you think of the ryan v. sak fight. goof man- lol i likw that. but i have a better one for you . pit dog-shit dog.

[Biker]

Guardman, my previous post was not directed at you specifically. It was to agree with Pitdog and add my own two cents regarding how threads like this degenerate into little bickering contests.

Have a nice day.

[Ryu (non-working password]

Originally said by Biker,
"threads like this degenerate into little bickering contests..."

Haha you have NO idea! Whenever Pit comes onto post, kiss the thread goodbye. (no offense, Pit )


By the way, Biker,
Welcome to the forum

Ryu

[Linden]

I clearly understand what everybody is saying on this topic, but again, we keep losing sight of reality.

You are not always going to have superior striking skills when you are in a street fight, and "sometimes" going to the ground is the wisest choice you can make, simply to counterbalance that weakness.

Just because you train in boxing it is not going to give you the edge in a striking situation. I have seen guys who have trained boxing getting beaten by a man much larger than themselves. If they had known any grappling, then they could have possibly ended the fight on their terms.

Another thing, being a complete fighter is much more important for NHB than for streetfighting, because it simply is a sport. Of course it has relativities to streetfighting, but is not an aboslute.

Street fights are more often than not sloppy affairs by two very unkowing, unskilled, drunk opponents.

We are debating here what the most effective system is to use in a streetfighting situation, and I feel due to logic, common sense, and true evidence that knowing a good ground game will help you more than simply knowing how to strike.

Does this mean you will always want to use grappling? No, but you can't always make that choice.

Everyone seems so afraid of saying that one style has more to offer than another. All things are not equal, some things are more effective than others.

Does anyone else here really believe that outside Jiu-Jitsu, Wrestling takedowns, Boxing, or Muy-Thai that there are really any other systems of fighting that have that much to offer as a whole?

We have to be realistic, grappling as a system gives you more options, both offesnively,and defenisvely.

Why would you want to take the risk of striking with a man that is larger or quicker than you, when you could just as easily take this person to the ground end it on your own terms?

A lot of times striking is just as much chance, and luck as it is determined skill.

If you feel like you can take a man standing, and that is where your instincts lie, then more power to you. But if you see your best opportunity as going to the ground, then by all means, go to the f'ing ground.

To sit here and say that it is absurd for someone to want to immediately go to the ground during a streetfight is naive at best, and displays someone's lack of true ground knowledge.

People generally dislike that which they are worst at doing.

I keep hearing people say that being on your feet allows you a chance to be more aware fo your surroundings, but that has little application when you are getting your f'ing brain sloshed around.

You can be just as succeptible to a stand up attack by multiple opponents than you can on the ground.

The point is, where would you most like to get your ass stomped by many different people, on your feet where you will eventually be thrown to the ground and throttled, or on the ground where you are already throttling someone else, and not have to concern yourself with the intial fall?

[Bau13]

I've seen lotsa BEATINGS on the street (6 on 1 etc)
Never seen a 1 on 1 FIGHT....dont think there is such a thing..

[Ryu (non-working password]

Bau,
Sure there is
You just gotta know where to look.


If it's 6 on 1, cut their eyes out with a tactical folder and run. Screw 6 on 1. I hope to God no one on this forum REALLY thinks they can take 6 guys with ANY kind of martial art.

Ryu