UFC documentary on MSNBC tonight

[sakattack]

I felt the same way about the UFC AFTER the pro-wrassling segment. The fighters looked like legitimate athletes.

Martial Artist, what is your point about my writing that the show said MMA and pro-wrassling encourage violence among young people?

[sccr06]

So what if it does promote violent images? This is a violent world we live in. Why we study self-defense? So we can protect ourselves, right?

These guys on these shows act like role models engaged in violence are by necessity, bad role models. That is crap. Hiow about some of this countries famous Generals? Practically every athlete in the country? I think a healthy dose of violence is good. It keeps our society strong and ready to face threats from other nations. I only start worrying when we have men that think that all problems can be solved by talking.

[sakattack]

"A healthy dose of violence is good. It keeps us strong and protects us from other nations." I don't think we need to rationalize violence. This is not the way to defend MMA.

Keeping us strong (whatever that means) and national defense have nothing to do with the sport of MMA. We need to emphasize and reemphasize that this is a legitimate sport with rules and safety measures, that it is "technical" and not just like tough-man contests (which is what some people confuse it with), and that it has roots in martial arts and self-defense and just another combat sport.

To get defensive about it and rationalize violence is going to hurt us more.

[HungryWolf21]

That report (and several others on the sport) fails to point out one important fact: at least these athletes are taking their aggression out in a positive manner. They are training and getting in the ring to fight one on one. It is very rare that you hear of a NHB fighter using his skills to beat the crap out of random people on the street (unless to defend himself). The reports focus so much on the violence that they fail to even consider the warrior spirit and courage involved with duking it out in the ring in a positive manner.

[sakattack]

In the report, they did have several people talk about why they were doing MMA, and at least one of them talked about focusing his aggression in the ring. One amateur MMA guy said it made him a better person and a better father. LMFAO.

[Tony10]

All in all, it wasn't as bad as I thought. And regardless of the dramatic, laughable claims about Frank Shamrock, he is a very well-spoken and appealing person who could very much be an ambassador for NHB, much like Royler is for BJJ in Brazil (believe it or not, BJJ last year was coming under fire because of certain school/gang rivalries that would flare into numerous street/bar fights).

Ignoring the obvious gaffes--"the object is to knock the person out cold," the Lester Holt line about how one of the guys passed out because the choke deprived him of oxygen (technically, yes, but that's not how a choke works), making it look like Frank was putting his life on the line--the real problem was this:

They portrayed NHB as existing for the purpose of staging violence.

I've never heard one fighter say that he got in the ring because he wants to be violent (maybe Tank); they're in their to test their MA skills in the ultimate test, as we all know. Any fighter is more than happy to win with a clean tap-out, nobody goes in looking for a bloody brawl. In fact, who wouldn't want to win with a bloodless, quick knockout?

And then they cut to the fans, most of whom are morons. They ARE there to see violence. In all the NHB pieces I've seen, it's the fans who give it the worst face... although to be fair boxing fans aren't exactly MENSA members, either.

Then, they pair it with the extreme wrestling, where the sole expressed purpose is to ACT OUT violent acts and shed blood for the orgiastic pleasure of the audience. The two don't belong together.

Welcome to the media, folks. You're lucky if you ever get something resembling the truth.

However, all is not bad. Like I said: Frank is a good spokesperson, as was that amateur guy who managed to beat the guy who was manhandling him with that awesome ankle lock--never seen that one before!--and it could have been worse.

[sccr06]

Sakattack you got the wrong idea from my post. I am not trying to defend MMA by rationalizing violence. I am trying to make a statement about the feeling in this country that any form of violence is necessarily bad.

I am in the military and I am sick of seeing people joining the army who don't have or aren't willing to develop a warrior spirit. That doesn't mean they all have to go out and crack heads on the weekend but the attitude that kids grappling with each other is abnormal is a stupid attitude in my book.

[sakattack]

OK sccr6, now that you've restated it I got it. I agree that grappling and MMA shouldn't be considered violent, and even if it is, people shouln't take such a dislike to it.

When I talk to a lot of people about MMA though, an overwhelming majority of them don't understand it and feel repulsed by it. That's what we're up against.

[sccr06]

Well, I guess that should teach me to pick my words a little more carefully too huh?

[GinSueDog]

What was up with that Marine Colonel, I remember 60 Minutes proving that his research on youth violence was baseless and misleading when he claimed that violent games lead to youth violence. The footage of that pro-wrestling was all BS too, what was it about MMA or prowrestling, two very different things. I don't know, I think if anything all it did was confused the general audience on what MMA is all about. I wish they mentioned some of the international events like K-1 and Pride or about Vale Tudo, oh well.-ED

[sccr06]

That's another point. They failed to include Boxing, WWF, WCW, or even mention the events in Japan. Maybe next time they will do better.

[AP]

I did not hear them talk about the respect the fighters show for each other at all. I know this might be off subject but that Marine Colonel is like this city councilwoman here in Raleigh NC who wanted to regulate all martial arts schools in the Raleigh - Durham area. She thought that it would make martial arts practicionars safer if they all had the same rules and regulations and techniques. This person had no idea that there are different arts such as karate, juijitsu, kung fu, tae kwon do. Luckily her bill was defeated. It was a joke. I was not impressed with the UFC special!

[Ryu (non-working password]

I'm going to say this again,
I cannot phathom why they are grouping MMA with Pro-wrestling here in the states. WWF and NHB have absolutely nothing in common, and are polar opposites of the other.
What do you see in UFC? You see two sportsman get into a ring, compete, and then when they interview the winner he speaks honorably about his opponent, what mistakes he personally might have made (they rarely make excuses), and how he hopes to be better, and possibly even deeper views about his beliefs, etc.
WWF you get two guys in a fake environment, whose sole purpose is to shed blood as Tony10 said, and they constantly cuss, put down the other player, act violent, tough, and crude. And not only that but you have big breasted women running around flaunting themselves, you have extremely sick sexual references constantly being made including and not limited to, adultery, S&M, violence against women, (rape is probably not too far away as well), and the "heroes" of the WWF are all violent, hit people at he drop of a hat, moral relativist, guys who are put in the mainstream merchandising of young children ages 8-14 every day. (look at any of the WWF toys)
Now, I'm not trying to rag on the WWF, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes who enjoys it. Sorry if I did.
The point I'm making is about NHB. NHB is NOTHING like this, and I really get angry when people group the two. A lot of people in this country (and others) think that the US Pro-wrasslin has become extremely disgusting, sexually perverse, and a unnecessary glorification of violence and moral relativism. If people who do not know anything about NHB group it with WWF...it just really bothers me.
I do NOT want to ever be associated with a WWF wrestler, and I really want to have people understand martil art for what it is. A way of protection, competition, and enlightenment.
I might be making too big a deal about the connection
but it does peeve me off a bit.

Ryu

[sakattack]

The connection between NHB and Pro-Wrassling should not be made at all. They are two different things. But from a strictly mainstream press point of view, they can be compared to make a point about violence in society.

I don't agree with it, but I can understand talking about both together. The MSNBC report did say that they're different and one is real and the other is fake. But many people still get a little confused.

[Martial Artist]

Originally posted by sakattack

Martial Artist, what is your point about my writing that the show said MMA and pro-wrassling encourage violence among young people?

Well,I wrote that cause I went to UFC 22 and I'm not a violent person.