Judo or Wrestling?

[danfaggella]

I give a 100% to LEARN, I could not learn at all and fight as hard as I can on the mat and I will suck, but again, both is preferable

Obviously the time to learn a new pinning combination isn't in the match, I don't think I ever said that. I AM going to try to win and I always have given it all I have, but I want to bring something out fo wrestling when college is over, and by trying hard to learn and to perform is obviously the best way to do that. My MINDSET is perfectly fine, try hard to learn and try hard to win, I've always valued my learning over my trophies however, in any sport. I don't want to pump iron and build bulk (obiously doesn't mean i'm not working out a whole lot, its just calisthenics and stamina stuff, I put way more hours into staying in shape out of practice than the majority of the team), so maybe that will be detrimental because the lowest weight class is heavier than me, but that won't prevent me form learning anything, I've had my ass kicked many times in many grapples/spars/wrestling matches and I've learned from it. There is nothing intrinsically or moraly wrong with what I'm doing, and it surely isn't stopping me from developing in martial arts.

[Eyegouge]

Dan, I respect the fact that your trying, and your doing. But learning to wrestle is not the same as learning to win. Learning to win is an art within itself. It's fine if you want to learn all you can about wrestling, but noone is going to listen to you or respect you if you don't WIN. Winners are the ones who WIN. In martial arts, in life, in everything. Don't just learn to wrestle Dan, learn to win.

Learning to win gives you a disposition and ability that losers don't have. Once you get it, you can't let it go.

[jubaji]

here is a point --- catch!

Also, yeah of course I want to win, i guess winning is nice.

"winning is nice"?!


That's like me saying that having $100 Million dollars is nice. Guess what?

[danfaggella]

Learning to wrestle and trying my best is learning to win. Unless by learning to win you mean learning to do things whent he ref isn't watching, to get the win. I don't like when pople do that stuff to me and i try not to do it, though i surely strive to win as much as i can within the rules of the sport. I think the best way to WIN is to try hard to learn and try hard on the mat, thats maximum effort, thats what i'm trying to put in, thats not a bad thing.

also, i stated winning is good i guess because A) it depends on what im winning and B) i'd rather learn a whole lot about body methanics and takedowns ect... then simply get wins, though they do in fact go hand in hand most of the time.

[Eyegouge]

"If you ain't cheating you aint trying hard enough."

Words of wisdom from Kurt Hettinger (NCAA all american) and Casey Hiasaki (Son of the head coach of the #1 ranked collegiate mens gymnastics team). As well as every other coach I've had. (NCAA national champions, All Americans, and the greatest gymnasts in the game).

[jubaji]

Learning to wrestle and trying my best is learning to win. Unless by learning to win you mean learning to do things whent he ref isn't watching, to get the win. I don't like when pople do that stuff to me and i try not to do it, though i surely strive to win as much as i can within the rules of the sport. I think the best way to WIN is to try hard to learn and try hard on the mat, thats maximum effort, thats what i'm trying to put in, thats not a bad thing.

also, i stated winning is good i guess because A) it depends on what im winning and B) i'd rather learn a whole lot about body methanics and takedowns ect... then simply get wins.

I'm thinking of a word that rhymes with "hooser".

[danfaggella]

Neato, not my philosophy though, I never thought that not cheating would be something people would critisize me on. I've always respected the guys who didn't jam thier knuckles in other poeple's ribs or chinned people's spines. Its not a bad quality not to cheat, please don't tell me I'm not putting maximum effort in unless im cheating. I want to make money as well, but I'm not robbing banks, that doesn't make me lazy.

[Eyegouge]

Nothing illegal about using your chin, and theres nothing illegal about using your fingers to dig into the ribs, it's called a tight waist.

[jubaji]

I never thought that not cheating would be something people would critisize me on. I've always respected the guys who didn't jam thier knuckles in other poeple's ribs or chinned people's spines.

I'm thinking of a word that rhymes with "Pooser"

[blitz]

"If you ain't cheating you aint trying hard enough."

Words of wisdom from Kurt Hettinger (NCAA all american) and Casey Hiasaki (Son of the head coach of the #1 ranked collegiate mens gymnastics team). As well as every other coach I've had. (NCAA national champions, All Americans, and the greatest gymnasts in the game).

And I oppose that by saying "If you are cheating, you aren't trying hard enough to win without it".

I don't see how those are counted as words of wisdom, I could care less about who said it, its still wrong, if you are cheating to win, your simply not good enough. Thats my opinion.

[Eyegouge]

If you arn't ALWAYS thinking about the shortest, easiest way to victory. You will loose.

My coaches never advocated cheating in terms of like steroids, or breaking other competators knees with a crowbar (them figure skaters are mean), or posioning your oposition.

He was talking about cheating (in gymnastics) like faceing a certain way when starting a routine so if you had a cronic knee bend it would be on the other side and harder for the judge to see. Or picking your best event to go last in to take full advantage of the staircase effect of judging. Things that are not spelled out that you absolutly CANNOT do. Just taking advantage of the little things you are allowed and streching them to that added edge for victory.

In all honesty if was just evening the odds really. I was competing against kids who didn't have to go to school. (home school with parents that didn't care if they could read just that they did well in gymnastics) and guys twice my age (because the age catagories had a cap 11-up when i was a kid (11) and I was beating out 19 year olds)

[danfaggella]

I also don't beleive that you always have to dow ahtever it takes no matter what to win at anything at any cost. I try hard, but I obey the rules, that has never been posing for me. As I said earlier, I want money, but I'm not robbing banks or stealing purses or dealing heroin. Hence, I'm not going to knee soeone in the balls to win a wrestling match. I'll take it down a notch and assume you didn't mean anything that extreem. Even so, I hate it when kids dig thier knuckles into my floating ribs when the ref can't see it, but it doesn't make me to the same.

[IPON]

I also don't beleive that you always have to dow ahtever it takes no matter what to win at anything at any cost. I try hard, but I obey the rules, that has never been posing for me. As I said earlier, I want money, but I'm not robbing banks or stealing purses or dealing heroin. Hence, I'm not going to knee soeone in the balls to win a wrestling match. I'll take it down a notch and assume you didn't mean anything that extreem. Even so, I hate it when kids dig thier knuckles into my floating ribs when the ref can't see it, but it doesn't make me to the same.

I undertsand what you are saying and don't disagree. But I don't think what we are saying is to cheat or break rules. Wrestling is a physical sport I have seen people beaten by a stare down during line-up (and have done it a few times myself) that's not cheating its strategy. (double knuckles on teh sternum; chin in the ribs, back, armpit; tight waist while staring on the mat, tight grips on the kneck and the mother of all THE CROSSFACE .... its a tough sport and you are either tough or you submit a give in. The goal is always to win remember eventhough is is a individual sport youi are part of a team and have to carry your weight. Perhaps its your wording, but I think we are all saying the same thing.

[jubaji]

I also don't beleive that you always have to dow ahtever it takes no matter what to win at anything at any cost. I try hard, but I obey the rules, that has never been posing for me. As I said earlier, I want money, but I'm not robbing banks or stealing purses or dealing heroin. Hence, I'm not going to knee soeone in the balls to win a wrestling match. I'll take it down a notch and assume you didn't mean anything that extreem. Even so, I hate it when kids dig thier knuckles into my floating ribs when the ref can't see it, but it doesn't make me to the same.

Well, that's ok. You could be the team laundry-boy, or clean the mats before practice or something. Could learn a lot along the way.

[danfaggella]

IPON, yea, i believe we pretty much are saying the same thing except I'm just not the stare down knuckler type, though of course I just because I don't look angry doesn't mean I don't fight, I have a pretty rough crossface and I use it often.

jubaji, I helped start this whole team this year. A grad student, myself, and one other freshman all really dug in to get people to join, and support the URI club wrestling team. Nobody considers me the towel boy, and if they ever do, it surely won't be because I don't do little attacks while the ref isn't looking.