Joe Rogan

[OmaPlata]

He's only half right.

He's right that if your goal is to only compete in no gi environments, such as submission grappling or mma, there's no need for you to train in the gi, and while gi work won't be useless, any time you're using it you'd probably make a better use of your time training no gi.

He's wrong in his sweeping claims, as exemplified in his book Jiu Jitsu Unleashed, that the problems jiu jitsu players are having today in mma are due to a reliance on the gi. I would challenge him or anyone to find an mma fighter in any serious organization who trains primarily in gi grappling. They all have practice working their guards without the gi, and excel in it; and yet bjj still isn't the king of mma that it once was (and that I wish it still was). So the issue surely isn't that gi is ruining jiu jitsu players in mma; it seems obvious that there are skills you can develop from the top of guard once striking is allowed that can make winning from the bottom difficult for even top bjj players, and no easy answer for this problem exists.

anybody who is ANY GOOD IN NO GI., usually got their start in a GI. Except for top wrestlers like Lindland and Hughes, most guys like Lister and Penn and BRavo, all got their blacks in Gi BJJ. No gi is great, but GI is also just as important. I guess the point is its better to get good with the GI before you transition into primarily no GI

[Penance]

I really don't get the whole anti-gi thing.

If all you ever want to do is fight in UFC or Pride, then I guess you don't ever really need to train in a gi.

But if you're training BJJ for any other reason such as self-defense, sport, or physical fitness, then the gi is helpful. I don't think anyone sees the gi as a "holy garment" or anything like that. It's a useful training tool.

Aspects of gi and no-gi crossover with each other. Training no-gi will help your gi game and vice verse. So do both.

Gi training teaches you to be more precise and careful. It teaches you to pay attention to detail and it doesn't allow you to get away with slipping out of moves you'd otherwise tap to just because you're sweaty.

[JkD187]

anybody who is ANY GOOD IN NO GI., usually got their start in a GI. Except for top wrestlers like Lindland and Hughes, most guys like Lister and Penn and BRavo, all got their blacks in Gi BJJ. No gi is great, but GI is also just as important. I guess the point is its better to get good with the GI before you transition into primarily no GI

Like penace just said like i say and bravo and many others....he is not anti-gi...if you are training for no-gi or mma then you dont train with or ever use a gi its that simple....but alot of traditional bjj people who use the gi refuse to take it off.Their offensive setups from the guard are gone....they use the sleeve and collar to set up everything so without them they are forced to play the other guys stragety not your own and that can most likely cause defeat.

[covaliufan]

Let me try to keep a middle position on this issue, hopefully without pissing anyone off. This is just one lowly blue belt's opinion on the issue.

First:

anybody who is ANY GOOD IN NO GI., usually got their start in a GI. Except for top wrestlers like Lindland and Hughes, most guys like Lister and Penn and BRavo, all got their blacks in Gi BJJ. No gi is great, but GI is also just as important. I guess the point is its better to get good with the GI before you transition into primarily no GI

If you know your interest is purely in no gi competitions, and mma, then I have trouble seeing how the gi is important. This is where Bravo does have a point: the reason the best people currently in the no gi world got there start with the gi is that for many years (and to a large degree still) the best academies, coaches, and training partners favor starting people with the gi, and doing a lot of gi training. So naturally the best place to get your start in bjj is with the old school wizards who have 30 years of competitive experience, which means starting with the gi.

The question isn't if you can be a great no gi grappler by starting at first with the gi; it's if your time wouldn't be better spent if you could start right away with great instruction and partners in a purely no gi environment. That's what Eddie Bravo is apparently trying to create and test at his school.

Aspects of gi and no-gi crossover with each other. Training no-gi will help your gi game and vice verse. So do both.

Gi training teaches you to be more precise and careful. It teaches you to pay attention to detail and it doesn't allow you to get away with slipping out of moves you'd otherwise tap to just because you're sweaty.

I'd argue that what counts as good technique and the proper level of precision depends on what sport you're doing. If your focus is on doing no gi, it's not imprecise or bad technique to count on the lack of good hand holds when planning your escapes. Certainly skills from one cross over to another. If I were to stop training no gi now and train strictly gi for a year or two, when I took off the gi I'd probably still be a better grappler than I was before. But I would be even better at no gi if I'd spent that time training strictly no gi.


Now, on the other side of things:

Like penace just said like i say and bravo and many others....he is not anti-gi...if you are training for no-gi or mma then you dont train with or ever use a gi its that simple....but alot of traditional bjj people who use the gi refuse to take it off.Their offensive setups from the guard are gone....they use the sleeve and collar to set up everything so without them they are forced to play the other guys stragety not your own and that can most likely cause defeat.

JkD187, I think that you're just quoting what Eddie Bravo says without having actually experienced such attitudes and attributes in "traditional bjj people" yourself. Again, I'd challenge you to find a reputable academy in the United States or Brazil where people don't spend some of the time working no gi. I just don't buy his explanation about why bjj isn't cleaning up mma.

[JkD187]

You have some very nice points bro and i appericiate your input this topic is good and im glad it hasn't gotten out of hand .To set the record straight im a blue belt in gi bjj also but i recently gave the gi up because i compete solely in no-gi grappling..mma and boxing/muay thai.I agree that alot of guys training gi is good..espically for self defense and gi tourny's that is fact and i agree with you on that...but alot of guys say that no-gi and gi are the same....just without the uniform and i just find that down right stupid.If you were a bjj blackbelt and always trained with the gi...then decided to try a no-gi comp like abu dhabi and not training no gi is like insane...However alot of guys like Leo Viera and Marcelo Garcia..Jacare etc etc excel at no-gi and its because they are awesome grapplers...but some will argue that it was the gi that did it for them .I believe that before you start in bjj you should evaluate what you want to accomplish in the art....is it self defense? gi tournys? no-gi? mma?...figure out what you wanna do and take either the gi route or no-gi route.If you pick the gi you should at least train no-gi once a week just to get usted to it just like in no-gi train with the gi a least once a week.This is my take and im intersted to hear your's and omaplata's...

[OmaPlata]

Have you guys heard of Dean Lister? ADCC champ and KOTC champ and Pride fighter, who is sometimes boring but has a submission in all his victories. He trained up until and long into his brown belt at Fabio Santos in san diego. Fabio is the old school master ,http://www.fabiojiujitsu.com/ die hard Gi guy. As well, it seems so many of the old school guys are die hard with the Gi. And most schools, mine as well, no GI is fridays and sometime saturdays, and of course privates can always be no Gi. Anyway Lister being an MMA guy wanted to train more and more without the Gi and asshole Fabio wouldnt let him, so they had this big falling out and Dean went on to open his own school, heres his webpage not sure the school, http://www.deanlister.com/dean_lister.html. Dean was tapping out black belts left and right as a brown and winning the ADCC and other stuff, but still Fabio wouldnt give Dean the black because of Deans no gi demands, so Deans freind gave him the Black, Jeff Higgs. The thing is Higgs is a 1st degee black and I didnt think they could give out blacks. He is black with out question, he owned Jean Jeques Machado in the last ADCC, but the point is this debate has cause some serious issues in the BJJ and grappling world.

[aseepish]

There hasn't been a post on Joe Rogan in like 10 posts! Could we pleeeeeeease get this thread back on track people?



Here's the opinion of yet another lowly blue belt - I think that once you have decent fundamentals (i.e. someone at the blue belt level), you can discard the gi if all you are interested in is no-gi grappling. Why not? I'm sure your record in competition will tell you if you have made the right choice. You can always go back to the gi later.

[OmaPlata]

There hasn't been a post on Joe Rogan in like 10 posts! Could we pleeeeeeease get this thread back on track people?



Here's the opinion of yet another lowly blue belt - I think that once you have decent fundamentals (i.e. someone at the blue belt level), you can discard the gi if all you are interested in is no-gi grappling. Why not? I'm sure your record in competition will tell you if you have made the right choice. You can always go back to the gi later.

It is on track fellow lowly blue belt: to break it down;
Joe Rogan>>>>>>>trains under Eddie Bravo>>>>>>Bravo emphasizes NO GI training>>>>>>thus the posts on NO GI.
Now go back to cartoons sonny, I hear your momma calling, she just left my bedroom

[JkD187]

Hey omaplata that was certanly uncalled for....espically since your older sister just left bout 10 mins ago.

[OmaPlata]

Hey omaplata that was certanly uncalled for....espically since your older sister just left bout 10 mins ago.

she likes black guys, so i guess youre black? seriously lol

[medic06]

she likes black guys, so i guess youre black? seriously lol

What difference would it make if he was black or not, and if he was why would that be a dig at him? Please tell me you are not a bigot on top of being a total idiot

[OmaPlata]

What difference would it make if he was black or not, and if he was why would that be a dig at him? Please tell me you are not a bigot on top of being a total idiot

Dont call me an idiot you idiot ! Didnt you read the last word of the post, it was 'SERIOUSLY' ? I am not being a bigot, I like the colored as well as anybody else in the world. I was just saying she digs black guys mostly, and if he was over there, he must be black. Besides, I look black (when I am naked) lol

and I said "colored' just to mess with ya so dont start !!!!!

[medic06]

Oh boy, here comes the "I like black people, I've got black friends" speech. . .

[EmptyneSs]

Dont call me an idiot you idiot ! Didnt you read the last word of the post, it was 'SERIOUSLY' ? I am not being a bigot, I like the colored as well as anybody else in the world. I was just saying she digs black guys mostly, and if he was over there, he must be black. Besides, I look black (when I am naked) lol

and I said "colored' just to mess with ya so dont start !!!!!

does it feel good to know your sister always has black guys over because she likes big penises and smoking weed?

[medic06]

Kill this thread. . . .