Royce ANNIHILATED

[OmaPlata]

I stayed up until 2am to watch this fight and I was very happy with the result. I like Royce and I study BJJ (among other things) but it is time everyone stopped thinking it is invincible. This fight ended the argument for good.

Everyone is talking about why Royce didn't do this or that, blah blah blah... If someone is totally dominating you you look like a beginner. That is because nothing you do works.

As for the age excuse, tell that to Randy C.

Overall, a good outcome.

If this was the case, why did BJ Penn A YOUNG world class BJJ black belt toss Hughes around like the bitch he is? I guess maybe BJJ does work when the person using it is young and strong or at least the same strenght as the the quality opponent.
Who coulda guessed Royce woulda looked this lame? He looked OK in the Pride fights, even with Sak, Royce was somewhat trying to win. This was the worst lay down in history, I coulda done better

[Sagacious Lu]

Smoked !!!!

Like a cheap cigar

[J-Luck]

If this was the case, why did BJ Penn A YOUNG world class BJJ black belt toss Hughes around like the bitch he is? I guess maybe BJJ does work when the person using it is young and strong or at least the same strenght as the the quality opponent.
Who coulda guessed Royce woulda looked this lame? He looked OK in the Pride fights, even with Sak, Royce was somewhat trying to win. This was the worst lay down in history, I coulda done better

Fist off, Matt's BJJ skill has increased by a whole lot since BJ Penn... so this is an ignorant statement, but you make them alot so no surprise. Royce trains hard, and this fight is no exception... Matt won... and would have broke Penns arm had he gotten him into that sub...

[BoarSpear]

From your post, it looks like a guy who's pretty skilled like yourself can still get beat by a guy who's just plain big and strong. Have you told this to the throngs of people who still claim that BJJ will overcome all the strength and size advantages of possible street assailants? I think some of them could use your words of wisdom and experience, SG.

..................................

[SamuraiGuy]

So wait a second...

Is it possible that size and strength DO make a difference, even against such "leverage based systems" and "non-attribute based systems" as Bjj? (Those terms have come close to making me piss myself laughing at times)

From your post, it looks like a guy who's pretty skilled like yourself can still get beat by a guy who's just plain big and strong. Have you told this to the throngs of people who still claim that BJJ will overcome all the strength and size advantages of possible street assailants? I think some of them could use your words of wisdom and experience, SG.

I wouldnt call myself skilled... yeah I dont even think I have the S part of the word skill down yet, but yeah thats what I'm saying.

I would say someone on the level of Royce Gracie, Marcelo Garcia, Ronaldo Jacare Souza (although I doubt hes at a size/athletiscism disadvantage), could easily handle any overgrown Ox, I'm simply not at that level. Yet.

That doesnt mean I havent tapped out 350 pounders at less than half that weight. It doesnt mean if I really struggle (grab the belt, the shorts under the leg) I cant hold on and wait till they get bored of attempting a keylock.

But your right, size and strength are huge factors.

Btw, I'm not even being modest with that whole skill analogy, I really suck, dont tell anyone though.

[BoarSpear]

Can anybody explain to me why Royce's MMA record was stated to be 11-0, are we now all of a sudden no longer counting the fights outside the UFC?

How about the ones that happened IN the UFC? Remember Ken Shamrock and Royces "superfight" DRAW? why did it say 11-0? Same reason rickson claims 460 wins...he's a Gracie and NONE of them were EVER in a fight they didnt win...EVER. They are undefeated, they were from day one in the UFC if you will recall....Helio whooped Kimura's ass twice in the same fight!! and the Gracies undefeated streak has been unblemished ever since

[OmaPlata]

Fist off, Matt's BJJ skill has increased by a whole lot since BJ Penn... so this is an ignorant statement, but you make them alot so no surprise. Royce trains hard, and this fight is no exception... Matt won... and would have broke Penns arm had he gotten him into that sub...

he wouldnt have, as you saw, he got spanked by Penn, and no matter how much Hughes trained since then, he isnt near Penns greatness on the ground. He wouldnt catch Penn in a kumura or key lock and if would break it if he did, why didnt he break Royces arm, or maybe he did?

[OmaPlata]

How about the ones that happened IN the UFC? Remember Ken Shamrock and Royces "superfight" DRAW? why did it say 11-0? Same reason rickson claims 460 wins...he's a Gracie and NONE of them were EVER in a fight they didnt win...EVER. They are undefeated, they were from day one in the UFC if you will recall....Helio whooped Kimura's ass twice in the same fight!! and the Gracies undefeated streak has been unblemished ever since

the only think i can think of is that they count Ricksons BJJ tournament victories, so if he fights one weekend in a tourney, you usually fight at least 8 times if u advance, so 8 times 2 days is 16fights, then 2 weekends a month when your a gracie times 12 months a year is 192 fights a year, and then times that by the 16 years Rickson was the world champion in BJJ, you have, wait, what, 3072 victories? that is about right, they were being modest with 460.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Who cares about how the Gracies exaggerate so much...Rickson did have alot of Vale tudo fights in Brazil and he had many other professional fights with several other fight orgs. But that doesnt matter, 5000 wins or 10 wins, Gracies like Rickson and Royce WERE the fighters of their time. And times have changed. Its about time people quit analyzing what the Gracies have done or claimed to do in the past, its over.
Anyway, check these pics out...Royler looks upset...http://www.sherdog.com/news/pictures...my_title=Misc.

[shasan]

All else being equal on an individual level, bigger stronger guy will kick smaller weaker guy's ass - that is why god invented guns, the Great Equalizer.



GOOOONNNNG!

[BoarSpear]

All else being equal on an individual level, bigger stronger guy will kick smaller weaker guy's ass - that is why god invented guns, the Great Equalizer.



GOOOONNNNG!

God invented guns? So I guess Satan invented the bullet proof vest then? what are you a jesus nutthugger?

[BoarSpear]

Equalizer my ass...the Great Advantage!!

That all depends on the proximity of the problem

[BoarSpear]

Yeah, but all things being equal, I've got guns for everywhere from 6" away out to three quarters of a mile. It may not solve every problem, but when you think about it, Boar - virtually anything is a pressure point if you shoot it!

Yeah, but your guns can be taken away, run out of ammo, be disallowed by location and malfunction....they also require a license (if its going to be accessible) and how many people carry rifles on the streets? Most people have pistols, and most shootings occour INSIDE 20 feet, knives are faster to deploy inside 21 feet you deploy knives with your hands knives build a motion base that allows you use about anything as a weapon, you improve yourself and learn to rely on yourself.....the firearm teaches you to rely on it, and it doesnt teach you jack about using anything else when it isnt available.

[Tant01]

A stick is a knife is a gun?

Yeah, but your guns can be taken away, run out of ammo, be disallowed by location and malfunction....they also require a license (if its going to be accessible) and how many people carry rifles on the streets? Most people have pistols, and most shootings occour INSIDE 20 feet, knives are faster to deploy inside 21 feet... you deploy knives with your hands knives build a motion base that allows you use about anything as a weapon, you improve yourself and learn to rely on yourself.....the firearm teaches you to rely on it, and it doesnt teach you jack about using anything else when it isnt available.:

Lets see, if you train with the knife you can use a gun like a stick but if you train with a gun you don't?

There is an exception to EVERY rule. So pistol whipping isn't required for your CCW permit? Maybe it should be?

[BoarSpear]

That, my friend, is why guns are only a part of the equation - no more or less important than the rest of it. Just another tool.

However, that said, I still put my ability with those tools above your average Joe's ability with his fists, a tire iron, etc.

By the way -
What is this compulsion to dismiss guns because they don't teach you how to use other stuff? In something like 90% of cases, presenting the firearm was enough all by itself to end a conflict with no one getting hurt! I think ignoring something with that kind of practicality is just ignorant. Shit, man! I can always come home from the range and grab my stick bag and go practive kali. It's no reason not to go to the range!

I didnt say dont go to the range, I just believe that average person will benifit more from knife training than firearm training.