ATTN Ober: Genetic potenial and difference in asians and asian americans?

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

I saw the thread of how african americans and africans have different genetic strengths.

Do you know anything about the chinese, koreans and the japanese? They are different but similar in physical characteritics. Can you comment or tell me anything on this?

[Smokey_D]

If there is a difference between Asians and Asian-Americans, I would bet that it has a lot to do with diet. The typical Asian diet consists of an emphasis on vegetables and carbs, i.e. rice, while the American diet is high in fat, meat and "empty calories".

The differences, if any, with the African vs African-American strengths would come down to diet as well.

I would take an educated guess and assume at some point in time as East influences West and vice versa, that the diet will become more and more similar.

[Mik_36]

what do they have in common?

What characteristic do they have in common. Other than darker skin I can't think of two races that are more different?! Look on some posts earlier in the discussion on the physical strength of Asians. Those posts have also been my experience. I'm not here to try to put anybody down because if I was I would be putting myself down and here is why. While my experience has been that Asians are physically weaker that us (whites), Blacks (at least African-Americans) are stronger, but the difference is not as pronounced, but they are better athletes, I don't think anyone (who wasn't scared of being politically incorrect, and had a brain in his head) would argue against that. Of course I'm talking about over all, not every individual. But I have one more comment, if we have affirmative action in corporations etc. then why don't we have it in the NFL, NBA, etc. (I mean less talented whites being put on teams). Of course I'm being sarcastic, but according to Liberals all races are exactly the same (except in skin color), and so if Blacks are under represented in the work force it is because they are being discriminated against. So the logic follows that if whites are under represented in Pro Sport (since they are exactly the same as blacks) it must because they are discriminated against. So we need to force whites into the pro leagues the same way we force blacks into collages and corporations. Makes sense right?

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Actaully, I was thinking more in terms of how "athletic strengths differ between koreans, japanese and the chinese.

[Mik_36]

O.K. - I get cha

O.k I misunderstood, my mistake.

[SweepEm]

I am no physiologist but reading tells me that in sports, it's about the fast twitch muscles in being quick, jumping and the other bulk muscle groups for strength.

It is documented through anthropological studies that in extreme weather conditions that; the Eskimos have shorter limbs to conserve body heat with less skin and the Zulu's are much taller given their climate is extreme heat.

So, there might be the hypothesis that specific genetic traits and tendancies will be associated with certain cultures because of the regions there are indigenous to.
But to look directly at certain cultures specifically as in sports or athletics, I don't think that such a study has been done, in depth.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

MiK......hmmmmm Made in Korea? Is that what your name means?

[Chopstix]

hey guys.. i think this topic has already been done before, i mentioned about how i think its got a lot to do with nutriution(sp?) and the culture, like how smokey D pointed out. Asian americans and the ones from hong kong and asia are very different in height and weight. the ones brought up in north america tend to be taller and wider, the ones from asia are smaller, although this is starting to change. i've been told that since macdonalds and other fast food places have gottena following back in asia, there have been a lot of overweight teenagers.
Mentality can also make a difference in athletics and acedemics. In asia, like korea, china, japan ect, kids are pushed a lot harder, they train differently, and they study differently, as in very very hard.. im not saying no one in north america doesnt do this, but in asia its just accepted that in school you will be pushed very hard.. same with martial arts. just look at the difference at korean tkd and the one offered here. big difference in training mentality..

[Edited by Chopstix on 02-08-2001 at 07:00 PM]

[Grahf1]

Maybe Japanese are stronger than Chinese and Korean. I noticed that there are hardly any top Korean or Chinese fighters in NHB, but there are plenty of Japanese.

[Slider]

I think that much of the African vs African American genetic strength difference lies in their family history. From the time that Africans were captured and brought to the United States for use as slaves they were actually forced to breed like animals the strongest males with the strongest females and their childrens strongest males with the strongest females and so on down through the generations to develop people that had a stronger athletic abililty than normal so they could work harder. I belive this is one reason white people on average arent as good as African Americans in very physically challanging sports , (Basketball Football...) Very disturbing when you think about it.

[Oberleutnant]

I completely agree with everything SweepEm said.

As far as I know...no significant differences have been noted as far as athletic performance goes between asians of different regions.

If we are going to compare asians to other races...

What sweepem said isn't limited only to Eskimos regarding limbs VS torso/ponderal index ratios; blacks (both east & west) have the longest, while asians typically have the shortest... and whites fall in between, with some at the far ends of each. Asians have also been noted to have denser bone structure in their feet.

Of course there are always exceptions...but this applies to the greater majority of each.

There isn't really much difference between asians IMO apart from aesthetics (skin tone, facial features, teeth etc.)... and Koreans are often very comparable to Japanese in appearance; you could probably attribute this to Japan's former occupation of Korea...

Re: Grahf's comment- there are quite a few world class lifters from each of those aforementioned countries
... especially the Chinese.



[Edited by Oberleutnant on 02-08-2001 at 09:28 PM]

[BIGGIE]

hocus pocus

I think these are generalization that borders on pseudoscience. Africans come in different packages. The tall Masai warriors are generally very tall and slim while alot of the world class long distance runners are small, slender but are great runners. Is it genetics or the environment or both?

Asians come in different packages as well. Eskimos do not represent all asians. Southern chinese tend to be darker and smaller. The northern chinese typically are more pale, chiselled in their facial features, and many are tall and big. Their diet also tend to be meat and wheat while the southern chinese tend to have a greater variety in their diet.

There are many japanese fighters because MA is big in Japan and they have a rich history with it. Also, their culture an dhistory had the warrior class on top. The Chinese had a bureaucracy where being a scholarly gentleman was the model for the upper class.

The mainland Chinese have been closed off by an insular communist government while Hong Kong and taiwanese chinese again don't have that focus on MA sports like the japanese.


Mik_36. I agree with your comment on affirmative action but it is patently false. In fact, you have Koreans and Japanese ball players. Think about it. What are the chances that some foreigner is good enough to play in the US?
Also, asian americans only represent a tiny percentage of the American population and many are immigrants not interested inhaving their kids play pro ball. Look at white guys playing top collegiate b-ball but major in engineering.

[Oberleutnant]

Biggie: Re: "I think these are generalization that borders on pseudoscience. Africans come in different packages. The tall Masai warriors are generally very tall and slim while alot of the world class long distance runners are small, slender but are great runners. Is it genetics or the environment or both? "


Actually much of it is based off of validated science. And, they are purely genetic traits. These aren't merely speculated observations made by the naked eye. Muscle biopsies, ponderal index measurement assessment, performance assessment tests, ergometers, force plate analysys of biomechanics, gait evauluation etc. have been involved in much of the research. This isn't even mentioning the abundant anecdotal evidence...

You said "Africans come in different packages. "-true, and so do people of every other race. But certain races tend to posses a high incidence of a given set of genetic traits; many, but not all may have them. These traits are no different than sickle cell disease... genetic factors.

[SweepEm]

Ober:
you said:

"There isn't really much difference between asians IMO apart from aesthetics (skin tone, facial features, teeth etc.)... and Koreans are often very comparable to Japanese in appearance; you could probably attribute this to Japan's former occupation of Korea..."

The reason that the Japanese and the Koreans are similar or as you say, comparable is that the current Anthropoligical theory on the Asian family tree is that the Japanese and Koreans are closer branches on this tree than the other Asian races such as the Chinese.

Some people might use the written ideographic characters used by both the Chinese and Japanese, which the characters mean the same, to compare the cultures as more similar, but of course, the languages and pronounciation are much different. I believe that it was the Japanese that adopted the characters from the Chinese and not vice versa.

The occupation of Korea by Japan was only about 3-4 generations ago, not enough time to have genetic cross over shifts in the whole population where you can discern certain physical cultural similarities.

[BIGGIE]

Ober,
Sickle cell is an identifiable and "simple" trait to track down to a genetic trait. Athletic performance is more difficult to gauge.

For example, eskimos have been described as living in an hostile cold environment and therefore have adapted with a stocky build yet measurements show this is not true. There was a really nice book that I read years ago that refuted alot of the racial "studies" that were done by western science.

It is not undisputed that science has figured things out. It's not true. The journal The Skeptic had a wonderful article that actually displayed that alot of studies we accept as "scientific" proof isn't the case at all. The perfect example are muscle biopsies. Science can't explain muscle hypertrophy. It hasn't. If you check a good book on sports physiology it discusses the "results" you get from muscle biopsies and the issues involved that mitigate a simple analysis.

My example was the perfect example as to what I was getting at. Africans come in all shapes and sizes and the Kenyan runners aren't exactly the Jerry Rice types we stereotype africans as being. Kenyans are small and are great long distance runners.

Jews were once prominent in professional boxing and basketball. Jews were described as being good at basketball because they were "sneaky" and "crafty."

I do believe that a subpopulation within a "race" can have certain genetic traits or tendencies for certain traits such as having a greater abundance of fast twitch muscles or great aerobic capacity but athletic performance is too simple to describe simply based on physiological features as being a great boxer also takes courage, heart, and drive.

Max Baer was a heavyweight boxer yet he rarely cared to train nor had this great drive unlike a young Tyson for example.

Asians are fairly much similar. The races are like breeds with dogs. Obvious we can interbreed so we belong to the same species but Koreans tend to be stockier, pale, and have more chiseled facial features yet you can see korean girls with "moon" faces. The Chinese at one time admired the "moon" face for women.