Uchi Mata takedown

[Uke]

Kano also took the idea of emphasizing ground skills more after his students were womped by another school (Kosen Ryu i believe). I heard this in one of my writing fiction classes a few days ago: "Bad writers imitate, good writers steal." i think you could easily swap in "martial artists" for "writers." Shakespeare flat out robbed people of their ideas back in his day, but you never heard of any of those other guys' plays. Though certain ideas were certainly around before Kano, there's something to be said for integrating them into a great system that's become popular throughout the world.

You're wrong. It was the Fusen Ryu Jujitsu school that Kano took Kodokan's newaza curriculum from.

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

I think it would make most sense to pull the wrist up so that they couldnt lock hands around your leg.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

You're wrong. It was the Fusen Ryu Jujitsu school that Kano took Kodokan's newaza curriculum from.

there ya go, i was kinda close

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

I think it would make most sense to pull the wrist up so that they couldnt lock hands around your leg.

that doesn't seem like too much of a worry in the Aoki vid. If he breaks his right hand free he can only really reach for Aoki's right leg. with one hand he won't be able to stop Aoki from bringing that leg up to the thigh, and his left arm looks to be pretty effectively controlled once Aoki pushes his shoulder down into it.

[Tom Yum]

Agreed, sometimes the hostile trolls here create such a negative environment they cause the people who actually post on topic to be a little irritable and assume everyone is looking for attention through arguments.

I don't think its trolling; I think its egos that are getting ruffled up on all sides.

Honestly, jubaji has been doing what he does because there have been times when this site has gone through some real trolls. People coming on here looking to pick fights right away, bully others and make threats.

Jubaji, like the other members, is a decent fellow. Hey there was a time both you AND Mike roasted jubaji, remember? But being the sport that he is - he took it on the chin, played along and continued to expel the real trolls.

The stuff that's going on now between you guys is just ruffled feathers over disagreements. Disagreements over which system is the best...

The reason why people are so critical of Chinese gong-fu and Traditional arts in general is because of McDojoism. When MMA type events came out, alot of guys who were decently ranked in their systems got beat up by pro-kickboxers, wrestlers and grapplers. The reason: you had part-time instructors who eventually worked their way up squaring off against guys who fought for a living. Keep in mind, alot of youngin's (I mean younger than me youngins) grew up during the MMA craze.

Not to mention, in a lot of traditional systems at the time, black belts were pretty much sold to whomever could pay the big bucks for them (and in some styles they cost $$$$$). It pissed alot of guys off who worked their asses off and dominated some of these newly ranked, out of shape and slow black belts on the mats, but could not afford to pay for them.

If anything, the MMA craze has forced many TMA systems to look at their styles more realistically. Some were already realistic, but just damn hard to find for whatever reason.

I know that there are some traditional Chinese systems out there that are the real deal - not only from experience, but considering that WW2 Army combatives and LINES borrowed from them, it speaks for their effectiveness.

Anyhow, I've never disrespected anything a master or coach has said, especially if they could make their system work. But people are people, they can be picky and closed minded - especially if they don't have the experience.

[Tom Yum]

Agreed, sometimes the hostile trolls here create such a negative environment they cause the people who actually post on topic to be a little irritable and assume everyone is looking for attention through arguments.

I don't think its trolling; I think its egos that are getting ruffled up on all sides.

Honestly, jubaji has been doing what he does because there have been times when this site has gone through some real trolls and he's helped kick them out. People coming on here looking to pick fights right away, bully others and make threats.

Jubaji, like the other members, is a decent fellow. Hey there was a time both you AND Mike roasted jubaji, remember? It was right after the time Mike got the tactical & military section - and you two were the resident experts. But being the sport that he is - he took it on the chin, played along and continued to expel the real trolls.

The stuff that's going on now between you and jubaji is just ruffled feathers over disagreements. Disagreements over which system is the best.

The reason why people are so critical of Chinese gong-fu and Traditional arts in general is because of McDojoism.

When MMA type events came out, alot of guys who were decently ranked in their systems got beat up by pro-kickboxers, wrestlers and grapplers. The reason: you had part-time instructors who eventually worked their way up squaring off against guys who fought for a living and trained everyday. Keep in mind, alot of youngin's (I mean younger than me youngins) grew up during the MMA craze, so that's all they've seen.

Not to mention, in a lot of traditional systems at the time, black belts were pretty much sold to whomever could pay the big bucks for them (and in some styles they costed $$$$$). It pissed alot of guys off who worked their asses off and dominated some of these newly ranked, out of shape and slow black belts on the mats, despite being lower ranked but could not afford to pay for them.

If anything, the MMA craze has forced many TMA systems to look at their styles more realistically. Some were already realistic, but just damn hard to find for whatever reason.

I know that there are some traditional Chinese systems out there that are the real deal - not only from experience, but considering that WW2 Army combatives and LINES borrowed from them as early as the 1940's, it speaks for their effectiveness. Even Tae kwon do was integrated into the system after the Vietnam war, when the South Koreans proved their metal in CQC with vietcong.

I've never disrespected anything a master or coach has said, especially if they could make their system work. But in general people are people, can be picky and are hard to convince if they don't see it right away.

[Uke]

I don't think its trolling; I think its egos that are getting ruffled up on all sides.

Honestly, jubaji has been doing what he does because there have been times when this site has gone through some real trolls and he's helped kick them out. People coming on here looking to pick fights right away, bully others and make threats.

Jubaji, like the other members, is a decent fellow. Hey there was a time both you AND Mike roasted jubaji, remember? It was right after the time Mike got the tactical & military section - and you two were the resident experts. But being the sport that he is - he took it on the chin, played along and continued to expel the real trolls.

The stuff that's going on now between you and jubaji is just ruffled feathers over disagreements. Disagreements over which system is the best.

The reason why people are so critical of Chinese gong-fu and Traditional arts in general is because of McDojoism.

When MMA type events came out, alot of guys who were decently ranked in their systems got beat up by pro-kickboxers, wrestlers and grapplers. The reason: you had part-time instructors who eventually worked their way up squaring off against guys who fought for a living and trained everyday. Keep in mind, alot of youngin's (I mean younger than me youngins) grew up during the MMA craze, so that's all they've seen.

Not to mention, in a lot of traditional systems at the time, black belts were pretty much sold to whomever could pay the big bucks for them (and in some styles they costed $$$$$). It pissed alot of guys off who worked their asses off and dominated some of these newly ranked, out of shape and slow black belts on the mats, despite being lower ranked but could not afford to pay for them.

If anything, the MMA craze has forced many TMA systems to look at their styles more realistically. Some were already realistic, but just damn hard to find for whatever reason.

I know that there are some traditional Chinese systems out there that are the real deal - not only from experience, but considering that WW2 Army combatives and LINES borrowed from them as early as the 1940's, it speaks for their effectiveness. Even Tae kwon do was integrated into the system after the Vietnam war, when the South Koreans proved their metal in CQC with vietcong.

I've never disrespected anything a master or coach has said, especially if they could make their system work. But in general people are people, can be picky and are hard to convince if they don't see it right away.

No disrespect directed towards you Tom, but that's bullshit. Jubaji is a sarcastic, mean-spirited loser on every single forum on this site. If he got roasted, it was in response for the disrespect he's displayed elsewhere.

People here can agree to disagree without having to get into arguments and tirades, but here that isn't an option. Its funny how when people speak of CMA's and other TMA's jubaji and dozens of other ignorant forum members slam, criticize and degrade them and any one who practices them.

Now when I started the "So you think BJJ is effective for street self defense?" topic, 90% of this forum lost its mind! I didn't even approach that topic by saying that BJJ or MMA "sucked" or was "worthless". I simply said it wasn't suitable for RBSD. People called me names, insulted me, said what I had to say was "bullshit" and "pure fantasy". But I've been here on this forum for years, and now when I look around, there are people who disagreed and argued every point repeating the information I wrote on that topic!

Its amazing how when the morons attack every TMA under the sun, they state that TMA's should respect their opinion. But when I leave the opinions out and approach a debate from a factual standpoint about BJJ and MMA, the bitch comes out of every one of them.

I don't see any ruffled feathers concerning any disagreements with jubaji and the other monkeys here. They rarely write anything comprehensive to offer a difference of opinion, just more insults with no reasoning or logic. People can debate a difference of opinion. What no man can debate is empty insults and accusations.

I understand that you're playing diplomat and its noble of you, Tom. But the answer doesn't lay in convincing people to be more tolerant of the insults and slander. It lies in setting a code of conduct that everybody should have to follow. But you don't see that here on this site. Until then, it is what it is.

[Tant01]

I haven't forgotten about you Tant01.


.....This is the second time you tried to challenge me about jujitsu and judo's history. And this is the second serving of humble pie you'll be eating served by yours truly.

Who are you? You don't like my cut and paste quote from a 5th Dan? :FU:

Kano revolutionized jujutsu in more ways than one. The sources I have researched suggest KUZUSHI was one of his distuingishing contributions to Judo.

Did the concept exist before Kano? Uhh, Duh?

Were there "other" schools with the word(s) Ju-do in the name? Yes. Who cares? That's why Kano called his new JUDO school the "Kodokan".

Any more smart ass remarks Puke?

[BoarSpear]

It lies in setting a code of conduct that everybody should have to follow. But you don't see that here on this site. Until then, it is what it is.

[Uke]

Who are you? You don't like my cut and paste quote from a 5th Dan? :FU:

Kano revolutionized jujutsu in more ways than one. The sources I have researched suggest KUZUSHI was one of his distuingishing contributions to Judo.

Did the concept exist before Kano? Uhh, Duh?

Were there "other" schools with the word(s) Ju-do in the name? Yes. Who cares? That's why Kano called his new JUDO school the "Kodokan".

Any more smart ass remarks Puke?

I just wanted to make sure your old ass understood who knows what. Either you know, or you don't. Sure, you'll say that those things existed now after I posted it. But by posting that nonsense above you tried to lead people to believe that Kano created Judo and came up with kuzushi. The term kuzushi and the concept were coined and practiced before Kano's birth. Don't play it off like you knew that now. The equivalent of what you said is like saying Bruce Lee created wing chun because he brought it openly to the states.

As I said this slice of humble pie will be your second serving from yours truly. Eat it nice and slowly.

[BoarSpear]

I don't think its trolling; I think its egos that are getting ruffled up on all sides.

.

Geesh dude I heard ya the first time.

[Tant01]

Keep spewing your alleged knowlege great sage of pUke...

Nothing like humility...

[BoarSpear]

Keep spewing your alleged knowlege great sage of pUke...

Nothing like humility...

All the unnecessary bodily function references are ruining muh popcorn dammit!

[Tant01]

Note - Kano's approach to the development of Judo and the study of Jujitsu is illustrated in the following extract from Watanabe and Avakian, "The Secrets of Judo" (1960, p35-36) regarding the discovery of kuzushi or the principle of unbalancing the opponent, Professor Kano reporting his discovery said:

Mr. Iikubo was over fifty years old at the time, but he was still strong, and I used to work with him often. Although I practiced my technique industriously, I could never vie with him. I think it was about 1885 that I found, while practicing randori (free exercise) with him, that the techniques I tried were extremely effective. Usually it ahd been he who threw me. Now, instead of being thrown, I was throwing him with increasing regularity. I could do this despite the fact that he was of the Kito-ryu school and was especially adept at throwing techniques.
This apparently surprised him, and he was upset over it for quite a while. What I had done was quite unusual. But it was the result of my study of how to break the posture of the opponent... I told Mr Iikubo about this, explaining that the throw should be applied after one has broken the opponent's posture. Then he said to me: 'This is right. I am afraid I have nothing more to teach you. From now on, you should continue your study with younger men. I will no longer practice with you.' And he has refrained from practicing with me since. Soon afterward, I was initiated in the mystery of the Kito-ryo jujitsu and received all his books and manuscripts of the school.






* http://www.sharpjujitsu.com/history.htm

[jubaji]

People here can agree to disagree without having to get into arguments and tirades.

LOL! Who are you, again?