Bruce Lee vs Grapplers of today, such as Ken Shamrock

[Tom Yum]

go do a search for fight vids (common street encounters) these are what I've been in and what I see more often then a UFC fight

No offense, but many of these fight vids have two guys get into a peeing contest and end up throwing about 15-20 haymakers at each other, closing to a really crude clinch with about 10 rabbit punches.

About 30 seconds later, they are both exhausted, seperate and one guy tries to wrestle the other.

Some of the other ones show a guy getting sucker punched and kicked around.

The most impressive of all these fight vids are the ones involving Kimbo, because he has some boxing fundamentals, alot of power and usually destroys another big fella with no skill and a lot of muscle.

[bdipab]

You've got some interesting points.

Some things you forgot to consider:

Many BJJ schools have instructors in muay thai, boxing, judo or FMA/Silat allowing students to work on their stand up game or with weapons.

BJJ is more than just the guard. The guard is just one position. There are variations of it and its a helluva lot better than letting a bigger, stronger person mount you. If you get knocked to the ground without your weapon drawn, would you rather have someone in your guard or mounting you while raining fists, elbows and forehead at you?

"Jumping" guard is a ring-tactic, but using the guard is not. I am no expert, but I can tell you for fact that the BJJ system can be adjusted for street self-defense.

Yeah, read my posts, that's what I've been saying. BJJ is a supplement to other arts (no one art is perfect) and my problem has been with the BJJ establishment and hype through misinformation. My point is that BJJ can be impractical in a lot of ways (several BJJ practitioners here took offense to that - because to them they can defeat anyone with their BJJ skills ). What gets me is the responses to my posts have mainly been "we know what's best and you never fought anyone in your life" type responses, or from people who believe that mma are the best way to "Street" test an art.

[bdipab]

The most impressive of all these fight vids are the ones involving Kimbo, because he has some boxing fundamentals, alot of power and usually destroys another big fella with no skill and a lot of muscle.

Yeah, "niggah gotta eat" - .

[Tom Yum]

Yeah, read my posts, that's what I've been saying. BJJ is a supplement to other arts (no one art is perfect) and my problem has been with the BJJ establishment and hype through misinformation. My point is that BJJ can be impractical in a lot of ways (several BJJ practitioners here took offense to that - because to them they can defeat anyone with their BJJ skills ). What gets me is the responses to my posts have mainly been "we know what's best and you never fought anyone in your life" type responses, or from people who believe that mma are the best way to "Street" test an art.

You attacked BJJ, then mitigate your position by saying BJJ is ok. The way you attacked it was by latching on to the 'jump guard' which happens in JJ and MMA tournaments but is one tactic designed to win against one competitor. In that arena, it works perfectly fine.

BJJ for self-defense is taught differently. As a matter of fact, they don't emphasize getting the guard that much when they teach self-defense, except when you get knocked down and someone tries to mount.

They teach position, control and finishing really well though. In a one on one type fight, experienced grappling has proven great even against world champion knockout artists.

A 170-lb Japanese olympic judoka took down and sub'd ex-IBF heavyweight Champ Frans Botha. A 170-lb Gracie sub'd a 500 lb Sumo champ and a Pro-wrestling/Shooto fighter sub'd world class muay thai champ Diamond Dekker. All of their opponents were powerful stand up fighters/stand-up grapplers who could probably crush anyone in stand up at any given time.

Self-defense is different and alot crazier, but there's some merit in this.

[Tom Yum]

My point is that BJJ can be impractical in a lot of ways several BJJ practitioners here took offense to that - because to them they can defeat anyone with their BJJ skills

I don't think anyone explicitly said they could take on anyone and beat them because they are experienced in BJJ. No one is invincible, but training beats no training in most scenarios.

[bdipab]

You attacked BJJ, then mitigate your position by saying BJJ is ok. The way you attacked it was by latching on to the 'jump guard' which happens in JJ and MMA tournaments but is one tactic designed to win against one competitor. In that arena, it works perfectly fine.

I didn't latch onto anything. I was using that as an example. Or would you rather I cite every single bjj technique, its history, applications, etc.

And the last long post was from an article that, like myself, was using an example.

[fenwick99]

re

Bruce Lee would be almost 65 years old if he were alive today, so I think the whole argument is rather silly. The question is: do people like Sifus Inosanto, Wong, Demile, Glover, Bremer, Tackett, Poteet, Strong, Cowles, etc. know a few things that supercede traditional wing chun and are useful in street fights (even though such things do not manifest themselves in MMA)?
The answer may be yes, and only time will tell. I think if Bruce were alive today, he would be training MMA fighters and working alongside LeBell, Norris,
Gokor, Rickson, etc.

[BoarSpear]

agreed were bruce alive today jkd would include much more ground work...note in bruces book the tao of jkd there are drawings of....groundwork.....

[JKDGA]

I hate these unfair comparisons of athletes from the 60's vs today's athletes. You think basketball players from the 60's would stand a chance against the likes of Kobe,MJ, and Shaq? People were smaller, weaker, slower back then. If Bruce were around today he would have added the new developments to his arsenal. He would also be an old man now. With modern training Bruce would be a smaller version of someone like Mach Sakurai, which everyone would have to admit is quite elite.

Very well said.

Debra Hartsell
JKD Grappling Assoc
Los Angeles, CA

https://www.jkdassoc.com

[Sasquatch]

Okay, this whole thread is lame. There's no way to compare that. As for that dumbass "The Master", you're a retard. Bruce Lee was incredibly strong. It's rediculous how idiots don't do their research then run their mouths.....

[OmaPlata]

Lee vs Shamrock was recently debated at this other board I know of. A lot of people feel Lee would win in 3 punches under 20 seconds. mostly a lot of saps.

Anyoen else see it like that??

I didnt bother reading the 6 pages of nonsense, but Shamrock would have destoyed little brucie baby in minutes

[Art of Soccer]

What is the diet of todays fighters VS Bruce lee's?

I mean all these suppliments and stuff you find at those GNC stores or in some back alley.

I don't think a lot of the figthers today are all natural... maybe I'm wrong though. Just like body builders... you can see the differece between the natural ones and ones on steroids and crap.

[ussdsajin]

i think bruce would fair a lot better than most people think he would against a world class grappler in a fight but not a wrestling match. he in a sense was one of the first mixed martial artist. he was way before his time and constantly trained his skills.

[kuk sool won]

What i find out of all this is people only think in thier own enviorments, sure Shamrock would have a good chance against old Bruce in HIS enviorment a.k.a the UFC but as soon as you take it onto the street Bruce would destroy him, it all boils down to the enviorment does it not? You also have to address the seriousness of the situation, if it was to death, Bruce would, to what i beleive be attacking areas such as the neck, you don't need to punch someone that hard in the neck, back of the head etc. to deleiver some life threatening injuries. As said UFC is nowhere near NHBs, its just people think it is because it is basically, the ultimate fighting championship, anything further and it would just be sin to watch. At the end of the day it has rules for a reason, when you are in a different enviorment like the street, there are no rules and to say one person or style would defeat one person or style is just ignorant.

[madness5]

Bruce and NHB fighters

If Bruce is still around today and at the age around 24 and/or 32 he will be able to compete with todays middle weight no hold bar fighter. He will not stop evolving, what make you think he would stop learning, he would seek out a good teacher in BJJ and learn all he could. He was a free thinker during the time old school still preach remain in your own system. Bruce would have love it today. The man Bruce will not stop evolving. All you anti Bruce people think he would be standing still and not evolving. You guys/girls are all wrong! Bruce would love it here today