Will Vitor throw a flurry at Tito?

[Mr. Miyagi]

The good old Vitor used to take out good solid fighters that were well prepared with a quick flurry, he even took out Tra "trauma" Telligman and Vanderlei Silva this way so it was pretty damn effective. Thing is, he hasn't flurried since his two losses against Couture and Sakuraba. After losing to Sak it seems like he abandoned this strategy altogether. But, anyone standing up against Belfort knows that he is capable of handing them their ass in the form of about a dozen quick jabs and Tito had better watch out when he gets close to clinch. Vitor is not so easy to take down either. I really hope that Vitor shows a flurry at the beginning but I doubt he'll try that. Any thoughts?

[Robbie]

I'd like to see him use his hands more,but only time will tell I guess.

[Maxximus]

Although he seems more well rounded now, I too am hoping that Vitor goes into this fight showing a little bit of his old self (yes, the Vitor who thrashed Tank Abbot all around the octagon and struck Silva down like lightning). If he leads his attack on Ortiz with those machine gun hands of his, it will definitely make a more entertaining match and it will also give him a much better chance at victory IMO than if he were to press his grappling against Tito. In either case I'd still put my money on Tito. By now Tito is good enough and knows enough about Vitor to not get caught dead by the "Belfort Blast". But who knows? With his new well roundedness, perhaps Vitor can mix up his attacks more and do a better job of setting up his punch rush. Although his newly inspired grappling skills aren't strong enough to beat Ortiz, they are good enough to defend against Ortiz and sustain him so that he has the chance to use his punches. I'd like to see that happen. It'd make a very interesting fight.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Vitor will not throw flurries. He played the ground game in his last fight against a LARGER wrestler. I see no reason why he should punch again. Against Vitor, he will try to go for a rear naked choke. Maybe after Tito defends, he will try to standup, OR just lay and pray. One thing is for sure. It be interesting to see Tito on his back, or Vitor trying to put him on his back.


I really am hoping for a standup war.

[duchman]

yella,
tito will not fight of his back! tito is much better wressler than vitor.if tito will land on his back i doubt he will fight from the guard, i thnik he will go to the ref's position and stand up

[Hookah Smokin Caterpillar]

Vitor is a black belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu under Carlson Gracie directly and you guys wonder why he doesn't throw fluries anymore. That was a younger, different Vitor that would lose to today's Vitor. Tito on the other hand is a better wrestler, but Vitor has him beat in ground game and stand up game. I think it'll be a tough fight for Vitor, but he should pull it off

[hounddog]

Well, he was under Carlson back in the day when he threw bombs.

Why wouldn't he throw if he wants it to go to the ground like you seem to think he does. Its a great way to set up a shoot. Even though it makes him vulnerable to a takedown he shouldn't care if thats where he wants it anyway.

On the ground, both Vitor and Tito are at their most devastating when they are on top. I'm sure Vitor has a much better guard than Tito but I don't see Vitor getting Tito on his back.

Let's face it. Tito has great hands and he should use them. If not, he's gonna get G&P'd for 5 rounds.

Hookah - how do you think Vitor will strategize to pull off a victory?
-hD

[Zhoozhitsu]

Definitely a great matchup, but I doubt Vitor can pull a victory. Tito is one of the smartest fighters out there. He will not try to exchange w/ Vitor. I think most of this fight will be spent with tito in Vitor's guard. If no one submitted Tito in ADCC, Vitor sure as hell won't do it. Since Vitor will be on his back, the judges will give the fight to Tito. Decision for Tito or ref stoppage from Vitor getting cut or pummled. Tito should go for a takedown immediately, pin Vitor against the fence and pummle him. Boring, but very effective. I don't think Tito should even attempt to pass Vitor's guard.

I think Silva had the best chance of beating Tito, and he was close! No one else poses a threat to Ortiz now, not even Frank. If he loses, it's because he beat himself.

And Vitor is a much smarter fighter now than before. If he beat everyone in the past w/ flurries, it was because his opponents were exchanging or attempting to exchange punches w/ him.

[hounddog]

i agree with all three of your paragraphs, zhoozhitsu.

I only want to pick on one thing regarding Tito not getting submitted at ADCC. I think when you throw striking into the mix subs are far more likely to happen. I don't think avoiding subs in a grappling tourney is a great indication of un-subbability(tm).

that being said, vitor aint catching Tito in a sub. He might pound Tito's fists with his face though.

hD

[Zhoozhitsu]

Actually, Mr. Dog.... if you throw striking in, it can work both ways when it comes to submissions. On the one hand, like you stated, submissions are more likely because strikes can soften up an opponent and open him up. On the other hand, the addition of strikes can serve to reduce the number of submission because of two reasons:

1) You can finish the fight w/ strikes and won't need to resort to submissions.

2) Going for most submissions (i.e. str8 armbar from the mount) will put you at risk of losing a superior position, only to end up having to defend against strikes. As a result, you see fighters pass on opportunities for str8 armbars from the mount in favor of strikes.

Also, in a submission tournament the only way to finish your opponent is by submission. The only reason why we don't see submissions often is because of the high level of grappling skills at that level of competition. The average NHB fight, if it were to be a submission contest only, would result in a submission IMO.

BTW, I brought up Tito in the ADCC because even pitted against the elite in submission grappling, Tito was never in danger of getting submitted. That should dispell any "dumb wrestling jock/prone to sneaky submissions" possibilities. Vitor's submission skills, despite being superior to Tito's should be a none factor in this fight.

And lastly, I would argue that if a fighter goes through the guantlet of ADCC w/out getting submitted, it is VERY unlikely that he will be submitted in NHB. He may tap out from strikes or have his face kicked in, i.e. Saulo Ribeiro, but you won't see him tap out to a submission.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I also agree that submissions are less likely to happen in MMA than in AD wrestling style fights. Guys like Royler, Renzo, JJM, Sperry, and a whole slew of other grapplers are very aggressive about pursuing subs in grappling only events but seem to do much less about trying to submit their opponent in MMA. These guys are afraid to take a chance because of the risk of getting hit. But Vitor brings extremely dangerous punching skills to the table and if he is able to take Tito down or sweep him from the guard (like Frank did at the end) Tito will be in trouble. When Frank finally swept Tito, Tito turtled and then submitted. I'm a BJJ fan so I hope that Vitor can pull this off.

[Martial Artist]

Tito might be a better wrestler than Vitor. Tito cant stand with Vitor or sub him. Look for Tito to win with his boring ground and pound. But he did say that none of his fights from now on will go to the judges so I guess he will.......get knocked out or choked.

[Pit Dog]

Zhoozhitsu said,
"Definitely a great matchup, but I doubt Vitor can pull a victory. Tito is one of the smartest fighters out there. He will not try to exchange w/ Vitor. I think most of this fight will be spent with tito in Vitor's guard."

RESPONSE:
Possibly. In fact, probably. However, if Vitor couldn't be held down by Couture, one wonders if Tito can hold him down.

Zhoozhitsu said,
"If no one submitted Tito in ADCC, Vitor sure as hell won't do it."

RESPONSE:
So, because you didn't get in a car wreck yesterday, that means you can't possibly get in one tomorrow? Is that what you're saying?

Zhoozhitsu said,
"Since Vitor will be on his back, the judges will give the fight to Tito. Decision for Tito or ref stoppage from Vitor getting cut or pummled. Tito should go for a takedown immediately, pin Vitor against the fence and pummle him. Boring, but very effective. I don't think Tito should even attempt to pass Vitor's guard."

RESPONSE:
LOL, I don't think Vitor will be on his back the whole time. The much weaker Shamrock was able to reverse and stand, and so I don't see why the more athletic, stronger Vitor can't do the same thing.

Zhoozhitsu said,
"I think Silva had the best chance of beating Tito, and he was close! No one else poses a threat to Ortiz now, not even Frank. If he loses, it's because he beat himself."

RESPONSE:
Beat himself? I always wonder how fighters "beat themselves." I remember Keith Hackney lamenting how HE had "beat himself" ... but if I recall correctly ROYCE put him in that armbar. Tito is indeed mentally tougher than Vitor, but he is also a proven quitter, as he gave up the ghost to Frank. Vitor may be maturing mentally himself, and may be less likely to tap and more likely to suck it up and give it his all. Vitor certainly is more rounded than Tito, though Tito has improved considerably. But to say "no one poses a threat" to Tito is absurd. Tito has proven he has it in him to quit, and Vitor has the speed, firepower, and base to help Tito make that quitting decision.

Zhoozhitsu said,
"And Vitor is a much smarter fighter now than before. If he beat everyone in the past w/ flurries, it was because his opponents were exchanging or attempting to exchange punches w/ him."

RESPONSE:
Exactly. Vitor is smarter now and more mature. He may or may not win, but to give him no chance is ridiculous. Tito is stronger and more raw, Vitor is faster and more slippery. And he hits harder, faster, and better. I am not so sure Tito can get Vitor down all that easy, and if he can't he will be in for a bad night. But even if he can, I can see Vitor defending from the bottom and getting up. And if Vitor reverses, and gets the top, well, I don't think Tito will be able to deal with it. If Tito couldn't take Frank's tired pitty-pats, then he sure as hell won't be able to take Vitor's avalanche of thudding rocks.

JMHO

[Zhoozhitsu]

Possibly. In fact, probably. However, if Vitor couldn't be held down by Couture, one wonders if Tito can hold him down.

The Couture fight is a poor example to use as a measuring stick. That fight went to the ground once, and Couture still got sidemount on Vitor. When they stood up, Vitor went horizontal for good.

So, because you didn't get in a car wreck yesterday, that means you can't possibly get in one tomorrow? Is that what you're saying?

Not if I’m not driving tomorrow :^). It’s possible I could get into a car wreck tomorrow, but if my driving record is clean, I’d bet all my money on not getting into a car wreck tomorrow.

LOL, I don't think Vitor will be on his back the whole time. The much weaker Shamrock was able to reverse and stand, and so I don't see why the more athletic, stronger Vitor can't do the same thing.

Who said Vitor would be on his back the whole time? This fight may transition to the ground and back a few times, but Vitor is not likely to be on top when they hit the deck.

Beat himself? I always wonder how fighters "beat themselves." I remember Keith Hackney lamenting how HE had "beat himself" ... but if I recall correctly ROYCE put him in that armbar.

Beating himself as in not preparing adequately for the fight, or making an uncharacteristic mistake like going for a flying fish hook.

Tito is indeed mentally tougher than Vitor, but he is also a proven quitter, as he gave up the ghost to Frank.

Whatever dude. Still buried in the dog fighting world I see.

Exactly. Vitor is smarter now and more mature. He may or may not win, but to give him no chance is ridiculous.

Who said Vitor doesn’t stand a chance to win? I was making the case that he is not likely to win. Anyone has a chance. I consider Vitor to be Tito’s 3rd toughest opponent after Frank and Silva.

I am not so sure Tito can get Vitor down all that easy, and if he can't he will be in for a bad night.

What’s the most likely scenario? Tito taking Vitor down, or Tito failing to do so AND Vitor knocking his lights out?

But even if he can, I can see Vitor defending from the bottom and getting up. And if Vitor reverses, and gets the top, well, I don't think Tito will be able to deal with it.

You can’t keep an elite wrestler on his back for long. If Vitor manages to reverse Tito and get on top, I can almost guarantee you Tito won’t stay in the bottom for long.

If Tito couldn't take Frank's tired pitty-pats, then he sure as hell won't be able to take Vitor's avalanche of thudding rocks.

Frank is a survival machine w/ superior stamina. He wasn’t able to do anything to Tito until Tito gassed out. Vitor will not outlast Tito in the stamina game.

[Mr. Miyagi]

LOL at Pit and Zhoo...just like the good old days, huh?