Gaining muscle, lifting weights, and BJJ. Is it possible?

[Guest]

Don't they put brains in CYBORGs? It isn't like Star Trek, is it?

Listen, numpty nuts, how is he "bettering himself" by putting harmful and illegal substances into his body?

Ask Arnold Schwarezenneger if steroids are healthy, after his quadruple heart by pass.

Ask John Paul Sigmarson, who was once the world's strongest man, until he dropped dead at the age of 32.

Better himself. You knob.

[jcolvin]

The ill effects of steriod use is well documented. The question you have to ask yourself and only you can answer is, "Is this worth it?" Most of the cases people mentioned are about people who make their living off of their bodies in competitive competition. Now we all train for different reasons, so if you are taking steriods and mind you that is your business is it worth a few years of your life.

[CYBORG]

Originally posted by Bri Thai
Don't they put brains in CYBORGs? It isn't like Star Trek, is it?

Listen, numpty nuts, how is he "bettering himself" by putting harmful and illegal substances into his body?

Ask Arnold Schwarezenneger if steroids are healthy, after his quadruple heart by pass.

Ask John Paul Sigmarson, who was once the world's strongest man, until he dropped dead at the age of 32.

Better himself. You knob.

You listen you cluster****. I never said that he was bettering himself. I stated " give him credit for WANTING to better himself."
Let me guess, You read a few muscle mags and saw a special on TLC. Everything is harmful to your body some how. How many people do you think have been hurt trying to perform MA. You have nothing productive to add to the conversation. So keep your mouth shut.

"You knob"...... Ouch! You are truely a master with words.

[ryanhall]

OK, Cyborg, I'll cut you a break since you're about 12. By your logic, you can shoot heroine in public because you're only hurting yourself. Most steroids are illegal, and they are so for a reason. Laws exist not only to protect others from your actions, but to protect idiots from themselves. Ever hear of 'roid rages'? In some people, steroids can induce uncontrollable, homicidal rage--but I'm sure you already knew that. Only hurting yourself .

Give him credit for wanting to better himself and trying to do something about it.

Give him credit for using a harmful, illegal substance on himself? Steroids are for pu$$ies who take a dangerous shortcut instead of actually putting in the time and effort necessary to become stronger naturally. You have a seriously warped sense of logic and morals.

[CYBORG]

Originally posted by ryanhall
OK, Cyborg, I'll cut you a break since you're about 12. By your logic, you can shoot heroine in public because you're only hurting yourself. Most steroids are illegal, and they are so for a reason. Laws exist not only to protect others from your actions, but to protect idiots from themselves. Ever hear of 'roid rages'? In some people, steroids can induce uncontrollable, homicidal rage--but I'm sure you already knew that. Only hurting yourself .


Give him credit for using a harmful, illegal substance on himself? Steroids are for pu$$ies who take a dangerous shortcut instead of actually putting in the time and effort necessary to become stronger naturally. You have a seriously warped sense of logic and morals.

Alright. Lets try this one more time for the slower people like ryanhall. "GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR WANTING TO BETTER HIMSELF" NOT give him credit for roids. At no point did I say roids were a good thing. I understand the concern of roid rages and for that point I give you credit. Maybe you don't like roids because you tried them and your body couldn't handle them. Maybe you are just a groupie that decided to join in on the argument. Or maybe your just a dip****. You say that people who use roids are pu$$ies. You are putting down roid users on a board, not face to face.

Your were just had by a "12" year old. Who's the pu$$ie now?

[superdave]

Originally posted by ryanhall
OK, Cyborg, I'll cut you a break since you're about 12. By your logic, you can shoot heroine in public because you're only hurting yourself. Most steroids are illegal, and they are so for a reason. Laws exist not only to protect others from your actions, but to protect idiots from themselves. Ever hear of 'roid rages'? In some people, steroids can induce uncontrollable, homicidal rage--but I'm sure you already knew that. Only hurting yourself .


Give him credit for using a harmful, illegal substance on himself? Steroids are for pu$$ies who take a dangerous shortcut instead of actually putting in the time and effort necessary to become stronger naturally. You have a seriously warped sense of logic and morals.

I guess Mark Coleman, Mark Kerr, Vito Belfort and many others in MMA are pussies then. Also show me one case of "homicidal rage" directly related to steroids. You cant. Even if you could, Ive already stated that Ive taken steroids already and at no point was I in any state of rage. Why am I getting nothing but regurgitated stereotypes and dogma regarding steroids from you guys? I figured you martial arts guys would be a little more reasonable but I guess you guys believe everything the media tells you just like the rest of the country.

[BellyOfTheBeast]

maybe because they are proven facts researched by professionals and doctors. You think they just woke up one day and said oh steroids are bad for you. Has it occurred to you why most forms of steroids are illegal in the US and NOT FDA approved. Because they are safe? Who are you kidding. Using the media for our "supposed" ignorance as an excuse isn't acceptable. Oh wait everyone is lying to us and we are so gullible we believe it darn. I must be really stupid. If you want to take the easy way in you're training go ahead. Yes I would call all of the professional athletes who use steroids pussy's. Look at Randy Couture of Carlos Newton, they use no type of supplements at all. If you want to use them go ahead I would love to see where you end up a few years down the road. If you think the medical risks out weight the benefits go ahead its your life to waste. Maybe where the world you come from steroid use is accpeted but in case you didn't know steroids aren't really excepted in the martial arts world. No one is looked upon with high regards or respected who use them.

[Kingston]

the ill effects of steroids are very well documented superdave. Yes steroids do cause uncontrolable rage, even what you mite call "homicidal". Its all very well documented. Not all steroids, maybe not the ones your taking, but i think you should look into it.
(asking your friends is not looking into it).

lol its kind of funny when you say people who use steroids are pussies. This is because there is also research that claims that about half of all profesional, or high level competitors, use steroids. Not all use eligal steroids. Most do though.

So if you think about it, if about every other althlete is using, who out of those two groups do you think is winning?

Theres not enough money to test everyone, and the testing isn't perfect. There is even some reserch suggesting that coaches introduce players to steroids. Even some documented cases were the athletes didn't even know they were taking them.

(that last example was in germany quite a few years ago....)

anyway my point is there is a ton of steroid use in sports, wether its elligal or not, theres alot of it. "fair" competition at high levels is just a myth in my opinion.

Oh and superdave, i would look into what kind of steroids your using, there can be some very very serious side effects. (testical shrinkage, rage, heart problems, breaking out in pimples. to name a few.)

[Burning Inside]

Originally posted by Bri Thai
Don't they put brains in CYBORGs? It isn't like Star Trek, is it?

Listen, numpty nuts, how is he "bettering himself" by putting harmful and illegal substances into his body?Physically he is..How is that not bettering himself? Is he "cheating"? If that's what you think or not, the bottom line is, he's bettering his physical self.

Ask Arnold Schwarezenneger if steroids are healthy, after his quadruple heart by pass.
Arnie also smoked, and because he will never be truly open about steroids, you will never know how he took them. Most likely not in a safe manner.

Ask John Paul Sigmarson, who was once the world's strongest man, until he dropped dead at the age of 32.

Did he take steroids? If so, how did he take them? In case you havent realized by now, there's a right way, and a wrong, despite what popular belief would lead you to believe. But hey, I don't blame you for being ignorant and elitist, it's the human way, eh'?

Better himself. You knob.

[Burning Inside]

Originally posted by jcolvin
The ill effects of steriod use is well documented. The question you have to ask yourself and only you can answer is, "Is this worth it?" Most of the cases people mentioned are about people who make their living off of their bodies in competitive competition. Now we all train for different reasons, so if you are taking steriods and mind you that is your business is it worth a few years of your life.

The ill effects are documented, yes. However, so are the ill effects of salmonella poisoning from eating undercooked meat. is meat bad? No. it's all in how you cook it. A little analogy for you. It's all in how you take them. It doesn't take a genious to educate yourself on the matter.

[Burning Inside]

Originally posted by BellyOfTheBeast
maybe because they are proven facts researched by professionals and doctors. You think they just woke up one day and said oh steroids are bad for you. Yadda yadda yadda

You are indeed ignorant and uneducated.

let me ask you something. How would you feel if someone talked smack on your martial art of choice when they have never practiced it..just heard about it from friends and seen a video of it?

[Kingston]

Originally posted by Burning Inside


The ill effects are documented, yes. However, so are the ill effects of salmonella poisoning from eating undercooked meat. is meat bad? No. it's all in how you cook it. A little analogy for you. It's all in how you take them. It doesn't take a genious to educate yourself on the matter.

lol. yes i have heard about the "right" way to take em, i think your confusing things though. There is a more effective, and therefore more dangerous way of taking steroids. There is also a less "effective" and a little "safer" ways of taking the steroids. (i think injecting it right into the bloodstream is the worst, i could be wrong)

it really depends on what type of steroid you are taking, and how much of it you are taking at that time. (it has been documented were a bike racer droped dead in the middle of a race due to overdose). Not all "suppliments" are steroids either.

If you take alot of steroids the damage from them will be much greater if you dont take them at high doses, or very frequently. Thats really just simple logic, and i think everyone realizes this.

i think this mite be a better analogy. Getting drunk every now and then wont hurt you to much (still hurts your liver), getting realy drunk on a reguler basis is very bad for your health.

Steroids are more dangerous in nature then alcohol is, so the dangers are multiplied respectfully.

Your doctors office should be the only place you get steroids, he or she will be able to tell you how to take em "properly". I dout they will give you any if you dont have an injury though....but good luck anyway.

[Frackal]

Some misconceptions

Hello all,


I was linked to this site by superdave, and upon reading it I admit I was rather surprised...I am well aware that steroid use is not looked upon favorably by many, but I was quite honestly shocked at the amount of misinformation that has been displayed so far.

I realize that most of you are going to turn a deaf ear to this, but at least recognize the fact that in the 20s and 30s, the US goverment made equally ridiculous claims about marijuana, most of which we realize today was nothing more than propaganda. Eventually the same thing will occur with steroids.

Let me address some statements made here:

One important fact all of you should be aware of is that the American Medical Association, (AMA), Drug Enforcement Administration, (DEA), The Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) were all vehemently OPPOSED to the scheduling (criminalization) of steroids and all advised against it during the congressional hearings in 1988.

This is a fact that can easily be found with a little research, I will be glad to post more if anyone is interested.

Roid Rage:

This myth also surprised me. There have been numerous studies showing that "roid rage," defined as "uncontrollable rage" had no basis in fact. I can delve into this more later if anyone here is willing to be openminded. The increased aggression from steroid use, even the most androgenic of steroids is still unlikely to alter someone's moods more OR even equal to alcohol intoxication.

FDA and shortened lifespan

Belly of the Beast, suggest you do a little more research before making such a statement. There are numerous steroids (the same ones that are illegal) that are approved by the FDA for use in the US for things ranging from Hormone Replacement Therapy to combating wasting diseases such as HIV/AIDS.

Regarding the shortened lifespan: Abuse of anything can have detrimental effects. NSAIDS which include Ibuprofen and Aspirin result in thousands of deaths per year for example.

Extreme abuse of steroids in some cases are likely to shorten lifespan OVER TIME. The difference is USE and ABUSE, just like anything else. Taking 1000 aspirin will kill you on the spot, but that doesnt mean responsible adults should not be able to take it for a headache.

You all have probably heard of hormone replacement therapy for extending the length and quality of life...I hate to tell some of you this, those that seem to hate steroids so vehemently, but HRT IS steroid therapy, the exact same products (test enanthate etc) given to HRT patients are used by atheletes and the like.

Again I'd like to remind all of you that I mean you no disrespect, I only come here to correct some misconceptions.

For those wondering about the reason steroids WERE made illegal, it was generally pressure from sports franchises and the IOC because they were unable to manage it on their own and did not like the negative publicity.

Remember, women (and men =) are allowed to get breast implants, cosmetic surgery, liposuction, etc, all which result in a large degree of maiming and some deaths as well... yet a responsible adult male cannot use a safe dose of steroids to add 10lbs to his frame and improve his self confidence....hardly seems fair does it?

Thanks for listening

[superdave]

Kingston, I appreciate your non abbrasive input, you seem to be the only one who isnt personally pissed off at me LOL. I assure you I know all the different kinds of steroids and all the side effects and proper dosage schedules. You are correct regarding the higher the dose the more dangerous the steroids are but I am going to be taking pretty moderate dosages because its safer and also I know it isnt healthy to gain a lot of bodyweight in a quick time, its better to spread it out over time for health purposes.
If anyone else has anything remotely intelligent to say fine, but when you start shooting off your mouth about something you dont have a clue about you look like idiots. Anyone here who has nothing better to do than get pissed off and resort to name calling can go f*uck yourselves.

[Frackal]

By the way, Lyle Alzado DID not die from steroid use, as most of you probably know now anyway (his own doctor said as much).

Regarding Arnold, he has a congenital heart disease inherited from his mother, who died of the same problem.


And Kingston, I am sorry to inform you, but you cannot logically quantify something as you have regarding alcohol and steroids...though I can give an example that a male suffering from low testosterone levels will benefit from lifelong steroid (testosterone) replacement, but longterm use of alchohol will cause numerous problems including brain damage.

Kingston, also I appreciate your civil manner, but I believe you are speaking out of place when it comes to steroids...It honestly does not appear that you know much about them, and are mistaken on many points...just a suggestion...I am sure you get tire of people incorrectly stereotyping something that is important to you, so you can understand.