Karate revisited

[doubleouch]

OK,
I just reviewed the video mentioned above. Look where he is striking the bat. All bats have a weak point exactly where he is hitting it. It takes suprisingly little force to break a bat by hitting it in the sweet spot. If you don't believe it try it out. have someone hold a bat just like in the video. Strike it exactly in the same spot with a 2 x 4 or another bat etc. Start with light blows and increase force until bat breaks. See how little force it actually takes. Of course you could try striking it with your hands/arms if you don't hesitate and strike it hard and fast. Any hesitation and you won't break it. The trick is to hit it fast and hard with everything you got. You have to have the commitment that either your arm or the bat will break! If you go at it with that comacazie attitude most well trained athletes could break the bat.

[CHOKE UK]

Karate people often get very ofended when their art is criticised.

But anyone who knows anything about anykind of combat knows that there is not always but usually something seriously wrong with karate.

Bri Thai's point about trying to be good at football without the ball is relevant!

There is so much wrong with most karate classes that it is hard to know where to start!

To name just a few,
generally over 9O% of the lesson is not fighting.
or even bag work!
how do they develope speed,power,timing,etc?
through the mysterious and time wasting art of Kata?
practicing Kata only serves to make you good at ....yes Kata!
thus taking time away from much more important methods!

Belts......well whats that all bout?
Oh what pretty colours!
what relation do they bear to fighting ability?
If they are so important why doesnt Muay Thai have them?
The whole structure of karate seems wrong!

The best person to teach is the most accomplished fighter.....
and shouldnt belts always be given on purely fighting ability!
( I know some classes do but most do not)
Not how many lessons you have attended, whats that got to do with anything?
I have known people do a few dozen muay thai lessons and move to intermediate level........and hold their own........
but under Karate rules this person would be a white belt!

In competition, the judges are sometime so obsessed with technical specifics,
that they lose sight of the objective...."self-defence!"

Not always but so often karate seems not so much for people who want to learn how to fight but often people who want to do something but "dont really want to fight!"

Its not so much Karate but many of the people who teach.
You can become an instructor in 2 years or so!

Someone who has no pedigree as a fighter, where has he proved himself?
In attending the correct amount of lessons and coureses!
he has therefore in effect bought the belt!
So perhaps money and so called prestige,
to a person like this can be his motivation!!!
here lies the problem, and karate gets a bad name!

Right gotta go now, off to my karate lesson, cant be late as i'm the instructor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol.....£££££££££££££££££££

[wardancer]

Karate people often get very ofended when their art is criticised.

But anyone who knows anything about anykind of combat knows that there is not always but usually something seriously wrong with karate.

Bri Thai's point about trying to be good at football without the ball is relevant!

There is so much wrong with most karate classes that it is hard to know where to start!

To name just a few,
generally over 9O% of the lesson is not fighting.
or even bag work!
how do they develope speed,power,timing,etc?
through the mysterious and time wasting art of Kata?
practicing Kata only serves to make you good at ....yes Kata!
thus taking time away from much more important methods!

Belts......well whats that all bout?
Oh what pretty colours!
what relation do they bear to fighting ability?
If they are so important why doesnt Muay Thai have them?
The whole structure of karate seems wrong!

The best person to teach is the most accomplished fighter.....
and shouldnt belts always be given on purely fighting ability!
( I know some classes do but most do not)
Not how many lessons you have attended, whats that got to do with anything?
I have known people do a few dozen muay thai lessons and move to intermediate level........and hold their own........
but under Karate rules this person would be a white belt!

In competition, the judges are sometime so obsessed with technical specifics,
that they lose sight of the objective...."self-defence!"

Not always but so often karate seems not so much for people who want to learn how to fight but often people who want to do something but "dont really want to fight!"

Its not so much Karate but many of the people who teach.
You can become an instructor in 2 years or so!

Someone who has no pedigree as a fighter, where has he proved himself?
In attending the correct amount of lessons and coureses!
he has therefore in effect bought the belt!
So perhaps money and so called prestige,
to a person like this can be his motivation!!!
here lies the problem, and karate gets a bad name!

Right gotta go now, off to my karate lesson, cant be late as i'm the instructor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol.....£££££££££££££££££££

You are generalising.I have seen thai box fights which had some real useless fighters. Even worst, thai box is known to be corrupted by gamblers.Some fighters are just there for the money, get a few punch drunk.Why don't you go a bare knuckle fight with KO rules with a Kyokushin/Ashihara Karateka ? They do not allow punch to the faces but the rest is all ok..But I am not running my mouth blinded about all the negatives stuff I decide to see in any particular MA.
But you are not too far off
Now the problem with Karate is the lack of application of techniques (sparring), the conservative politics that stops any forms of developements.

Kyokushin karate is a good example of modern karate,

training should be 1/3 warm-up, strech, push-up, sit-up....1/3 techniques demonstrations applied on partners....1/3 sparring with all clubs members (bareknuckles but no punch to face).. low kick under belt...kick to face..
Tournament are KO rules...requirement of braking wood plates prior semi-finales..Dan ranking still have to fight under KO rules..Weight categories have been introduce howeever in case of a draw (meaning nobody got KO) the lighter fighter wins..

Or have you heard of the Sabaki Challenge?
The Ashihara Karate Style invites people from other MA to fight in the boxing ring: 3 rounds. No gloves but no punch to the faces but the rest is all good e.g knees, kick to the legs, a bit of grabing and throw to the floor. Trust me, once they start punching bare knuckle...any body shots will hurt. It's KO rules.

Now you might say "what's up with the no -punch the face?" and I could say because it is bare knuckle e.g you will get cut quickly. Then I do not like boxing gloves..they are too big and you can use them as a blocking shield. In the streets, you do not have gloves....

Belt ranking..well ...you either like it or not...it should represent fighting skills and not the time of training you have spent...some people should never be promoted if they cannot win against the colour of belt they aspire to acheive..open competition against others clubs.

There is still a few good schools of Karate and they take pride into being realistic MA. As time goes by, I hope the outdated/irrelevant Karate styles will just disapear because MA consumers and the general public are not getting fooled or/and impressed the way it was 20 years ago by any person throwing a side kick in the air.

[CHOKE UK]

Wardancer, thanks for your reply and I do see your point!

However how can I be generalising,
when I quite clearly and repeated stated,
"not always but usually!"
Contradiction in terms?
A bit like karate?

The school you mention appears to be one the exceptions to the rule and therefore is not what my comments were aimed at!

Like I say "some karate people often get offended!"

it is important to note that by watching two thai boxers and to say one looks poor,
seems a strange thing to say!

if you are an experienced fighter you will be fully aware that one of the fundermentals about combat is that your performance is relative to your opponent!

A fighter can look great and have all the moves in a fight!
Put him up against an experienced fighter with a proven track record and he can look absolutely hopeless!

It is not like karate where judge will intervein after contact!
You fight til you can fight no more!

Full Muay thia rules makes for what looks a very messy looking fight!
The blows do not look like something from Kata!

When your legs and ribs feel busted and your barely have a breath left you can barely move let alone fight!

So by a person just watching Muay Thai you dont really know what it's like!

I don't dispute that there are some good karate clubs infact I know there are!....Your appears to be one of them. You are lucky!
But I' sure it is inversly proportionate to a Muay Thai bad club!

In other words, for every bad muay thai club you may find a good karate club!

Also what about many of the "extra-martial-activities!"
For example, oh dont start me off on the num-chuckers!
more like dumb-f.c.u.k.ers!
Nothing like a young lady after a hard day the office, on her way home ,
gets attacked by some invading samouri and from her gucci handbag she produces a shiny "bruce-lee ingraved" set of Dumb - f.c.u.k.ers !
With a quick kata-proven move she takes on and defeats them singlehandedly!.......and rushes off to marry the handsome prince!

This story was brought to you by Phoney-films inc!
And was based on a ficticious martail art, any resemblance to Karate is purely coincidental!
THE END

[Thai Bri]

Any so called fighting art, especially a predominantly striking one, that does NOT allow strikes to the face is just irrelevant.

Lets get back to the footbal analogy again. This time you do have a ball.... you're just not allowed to touch it.

[CHOKE UK]

bri thai....very funny....keep up the good work!

[gracilva]

Any so called fighting art, especially a predominantly striking one, that does NOT allow strikes to the face is just irrelevant.

Lets get back to the footbal analogy again. This time you do have a ball.... you're just not allowed to touch it.

Simple, i will move the ball with my "chi"

[Thai Bri]

Sadly there are people who believe that this can be done.

[wardancer]

Actually, I do not know of any bad Thai Box Club...
In New Zealand, Thai Box Clubs are usually managed and owned by K1 Professionals like Ray Sefo and Jason Sutie for e.g and some Thai Natives Pros.
Will it be fair to say that most Karatekas know their own limitations?
If they wanted to they could easily cross-train but rather decide to stay in their own limited and mediocre fighting standard?
I would be all for having Karate practice in the ring. Put gloves on and throw out all the useless stuff (katas, politics, useless techniques) that do not work.
Keep the uniforms and belts if needed.
Create competition team with good friendly attitude and spirit and just keep competing with others clubs.
Train hard with each others at the club but do not beat/fight each others in open tournament.
The Brazilians have shown it could be done.
Get rid of the stuff that don't work, keep improving the style by finding what's not working and refine.
Especially get rid of the unhealthy Japanese idolisation of kissing the ass of anybody that claim seniority!!!
Well for the strike to the face...that's where I have the same problem...basically one straight right to the face...and the target is ko/out...and that's one of the reason why I left...

[wardancer]

To conclude, I realized long time ago Karate has its flaws: it is a 'bloody' dinosaur.
I trained hard at Karate. I wanted to leartn so I moved on..
Now I am training hard at Bjj and mixing it up with Thai Box. K1 and MMA competition (pride, UFC etc..) have shown that such MA combo does work.

[sherwinc]

Karate people often get very ofended when their art is criticised.

But anyone who knows anything about anykind of combat knows that there is not always but usually something seriously wrong with karate.

Bri Thai's point about trying to be good at football without the ball is relevant!

There is so much wrong with most karate classes that it is hard to know where to start!

To name just a few,
generally over 9O% of the lesson is not fighting.
or even bag work!
how do they develope speed,power,timing,etc?
through the mysterious and time wasting art of Kata?
practicing Kata only serves to make you good at ....yes Kata!
thus taking time away from much more important methods!

Belts......well whats that all bout?
Oh what pretty colours!
what relation do they bear to fighting ability?
If they are so important why doesnt Muay Thai have them?
The whole structure of karate seems wrong!

The best person to teach is the most accomplished fighter.....
and shouldnt belts always be given on purely fighting ability!
( I know some classes do but most do not)
Not how many lessons you have attended, whats that got to do with anything?
I have known people do a few dozen muay thai lessons and move to intermediate level........and hold their own........
but under Karate rules this person would be a white belt!

In competition, the judges are sometime so obsessed with technical specifics,
that they lose sight of the objective...."self-defence!"

Not always but so often karate seems not so much for people who want to learn how to fight but often people who want to do something but "dont really want to fight!"

Its not so much Karate but many of the people who teach.
You can become an instructor in 2 years or so!

Someone who has no pedigree as a fighter, where has he proved himself?
In attending the correct amount of lessons and coureses!
he has therefore in effect bought the belt!
So perhaps money and so called prestige,
to a person like this can be his motivation!!!
here lies the problem, and karate gets a bad name!

Right gotta go now, off to my karate lesson, cant be late as i'm the instructor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol.....£££££££££££££££££££

HAW HAW HAW M U A Y T H A I is great.... right?

HAW HAW HAW (again)

You are generalising.I have seen thai box fights which had some real useless fighters. Even worst, thai box is known to be corrupted by gamblers.Some fighters are just there for the money, get a few punch drunk.Why don't you go a bare knuckle fight with KO rules with a Kyokushin/Ashihara Karateka ? They do not allow punch to the faces but the rest is all ok..But I am not running my mouth blinded about all the negatives stuff I decide to see in any particular MA.
But you are not too far off
Now the problem with Karate is the lack of application of techniques (sparring), the conservative politics that stops any forms of developements.

Kyokushin karate is a good example of modern karate,

HAW HAW HAW K A R A T E is great.... right?


HAW HAW HAW (again)

[wardancer]

LOL
Now we have the Kung Fu preacher invloved in our little discussion.
Pls post constructive input.
Thanks

[gracilva]

LOL
Now we have the Kung Fu preacher invloved in our little discussion.
Pls post constructive input.
Thanks

The only constructive input Sherwank is gonna give is.......,

1.The rising problems with hospital insurance, understaffed, waiting time etc.
2.An experienced account of how embarrassing it is to train in one art
your whole life, then be tied in knots by a grappling novice.
3.How to eat through a straw when he meets a decent striker.
4.The highs and lows of reconstructive surgery.
5.The problems with unemployment as a paraplegic.
6.Better ways to get around with one eye.

See, Sherwank can be usefull

[wardancer]

Thanks,
I am kind of new here.
I guess I am going to meet all differents types of users...

[gracilva]

Thanks,
I am kind of new here.
I guess I am going to meet all differents types of users...

Different?.....Yeah, i think it could be the needle variety, or maybe pills,
but he is definately a user.