aikido and steven seagal

[Tcell]

Ewod, you're funny.

Do you think Stephen Livingstone Seagull could beat Obi Wan?
As for blocking Lewis,would he be blocking with his chin or his gut?

[RobertG]

Originally posted by ewod
robert g, read and wheep sucker...



Bruce's power was another story. You must have seen the photos and heard Wally Jay's story about Bruce nailing the 300 lb heavy bag and sending it flying. His punching power was 600+ PSI?, which is where most heavy weights are. This little guy had tremendous power!

I think his power is from the thousands of kicks and punches that he threw every day. You see the same thing with light weight thaiboxers who fold bags with their kicks; sure they look boney, but they can nail the piss out of anything with those shins and knees.

You continue your retardation. As if heavyweight boxers and kickboxers do not throw thousands of punches and/or kicks everyday?

Yes, Bruce had tremendous power. He probably squeezed the maximum power out of his frame possible. But then again, most champion boxers squeeze maximum force from their bodies.

Here is where your retardation comes into play. Bruce weighed what, about 150 maybe? Heavyweight boxers are in the 220-250 range. Now, think back to basic physics--yes, that's right Newton, Force=Mass x acceleration. The mass difference between Lee and someone like Tyson or Ali exceeds the speed differential between them. As I've mentioned before, and as most experts will attest to, Tyson had preternatural hand speed. Therefore, logically speaking, its pretty likely that a heavyweight boxer could hit harder than Bruce Lee. Likewise, a heavyweight Thai boxer could kick harder than Bruce. Its just ridiculous to assert that a guy that maybe weighed 150 could land harder blows than a trained heavyweight kick/boxer. But everything you assert is absurd, so I suppose its nothing new.

[mr. bond]

as much as i like arguing with robertg , i gotta agree with him on pretty much every thing here. heavyweight boxers are just worlds away from pretty much everybody. they have the best scientists working on their routines all the time to the point where they're like machines. they sit in the ring and have to take those huge punches for round after round, which they do.

i'm a fan of lee, and yeah, he could probably hit really damned hard. but he's too light to compare to heavier people. he was quick as hell, too, but even he was a great admirer of ali and felt he would lose to him. i remember hearing that he said something along the lines of:

"see this hand? it's a little chinese hand. ali would crush me." (not exact)

[Tom Yum]

Its really impact that you're referring too - not power. If a 130 lb thai boxer can break open a 200 lb sand filled heavy bag with his kick, then he could devistate the lower body of a 200 lb person. Naturally, a heavier person has more force but is not necessarily faster.

Small people who train obsessively and with some genetics on their side can strike as hard as decently trained heavier people. That's why Roy Jones Jr., who entered boxing as a middleweight (160 lbs) destroyed fighters in his own weight class with his speed and power. He did the same as he moved up to super middle, light heavy and cruiser weight. Now, he's barely a heavy weight at 203 and TKOd a 240 lb bear of a man that survived Hollyfields punishment.

General rule of thumb though is that heavy weight fighters are more powerfull than lighter ones. But the outcome of a match is not determined by power alone.

[ewod]

Originally posted by mr. bond
as much as i like arguing with robertg , i gotta agree with him on pretty much every thing here. heavyweight boxers are just worlds away from pretty much everybody. they have the best scientists working on their routines all the time to the point where they're like machines. they sit in the ring and have to take those huge punches for round after round, which they do.

i'm a fan of lee, and yeah, he could probably hit really damned hard. but he's too light to compare to heavier people. he was quick as hell, too, but even he was a great admirer of ali and felt he would lose to him. i remember hearing that he said something along the lines of:

"see this hand? it's a little chinese hand. ali would crush me." (not exact)

I think people assume to much that a guy who is in better shape and bigger than most will always beat their opponents...thinking like that is nonsense because anyone whether if they are skinny or fat can beat peoples asses...

[ewod]

Originally posted by RobertG


You continue your retardation. As if heavyweight boxers and kickboxers do not throw thousands of punches and/or kicks everyday?

Yes, Bruce had tremendous power. He probably squeezed the maximum power out of his frame possible. But then again, most champion boxers squeeze maximum force from their bodies.

Here is where your retardation comes into play. Bruce weighed what, about 150 maybe? Heavyweight boxers are in the 220-250 range. Now, think back to basic physics--yes, that's right Newton, Force=Mass x acceleration. The mass difference between Lee and someone like Tyson or Ali exceeds the speed differential between them. As I've mentioned before, and as most experts will attest to, Tyson had preternatural hand speed. Therefore, logically speaking, its pretty likely that a heavyweight boxer could hit harder than Bruce Lee. Likewise, a heavyweight Thai boxer could kick harder than Bruce. Its just ridiculous to assert that a guy that maybe weighed 150 could land harder blows than a trained heavyweight kick/boxer. But everything you assert is absurd, so I suppose its nothing new.

see robert, youre always bringing up weight...first of all, just because tyson weighs more than lee does not mean he can automatically beat lee in a fight...a lot of martial artists can take hard hits...what makes lewis different from an average guy on the streets? anyone can keep punching you and dont tell me lewis can punch harder than any average guy on the streets because that is nonsense...lewis got his ass beat by some ukranian guy, so it looks like your boy isnt bulletproof afterall...size does not matter, so get that thru your thick skull boy...it takes years to become a master in martial arts and it take what, about a few months give or take to become a boxer? anyone can throw a few hard punches nimrod...

[SilverWolf33]

OK....I've got a plan....We kidnap Roy Jones Jr....Take him to the woods, and make him fight to the death against an angry panda! And if they don't fight we'll throw dimes at them and make them bark like cowboys!

[RobertG]

Originally posted by ewod


I think people assume to much that a guy who is in better shape and bigger than most will always beat their opponents...thinking like that is nonsense because anyone whether if they are skinny or fat can beat peoples asses...

Dumb and dumber....and dumberer.

Oh yeah, funny how people assume that a guy who is in better shape and bigger can beat a fat or skinny guy who is not in good shape.

Tom Yum--yes, you are correct, size is not everything. I know that most professional flyweight boxers can hit a lot harder than me even though I have a good 60 pounds on them. And I have very little doubt that I want to avoid taking kicks from lightweight Thai boxers.

That said, my point of contention with ewok has not been whether or not there are smaller guys that can hit incredibly hard. My point of contention is take two fighters with equivalent training intensity and quality (in this example, Bruce Lee and Tyson), both with freakish genetics (there is little doubt both are genetic outliers, possessing attributes beyond the average person), the one with the 100 pound size advantage is going to hit harder. This is especially true when its 100 pound advantage on equivalent sized frames (Tyson has about an inch of height on Lee I think) with nearly equivalent lean mass.

Why I keep arguing this is beyond me. I should probably go to the gym or something and not waste my time. Hey ewok, did you notice there is a new Seagal movie coming out? He can't even make the theater's anymore, he's got to go with TNT (or is it TNN or TBS...one of them, I believe he's playing a sumo wrestler btw).

[ewod]

Originally posted by RobertG


Dumb and dumber....and dumberer.

Oh yeah, funny how people assume that a guy who is in better shape and bigger can beat a fat or skinny guy who is not in good shape.

Tom Yum--yes, you are correct, size is not everything. I know that most professional flyweight boxers can hit a lot harder than me even though I have a good 60 pounds on them. And I have very little doubt that I want to avoid taking kicks from lightweight Thai boxers.

That said, my point of contention with ewok has not been whether or not there are smaller guys that can hit incredibly hard. My point of contention is take two fighters with equivalent training intensity and quality (in this example, Bruce Lee and Tyson), both with freakish genetics (there is little doubt both are genetic outliers, possessing attributes beyond the average person), the one with the 100 pound size advantage is going to hit harder. This is especially true when its 100 pound advantage on equivalent sized frames (Tyson has about an inch of height on Lee I think) with nearly equivalent lean mass.

Why I keep arguing this is beyond me. I should probably go to the gym or something and not waste my time. Hey ewok, did you notice there is a new Seagal movie coming out? He can't even make the theater's anymore, he's got to go with TNT (or is it TNN or TBS...one of them, I believe he's playing a sumo wrestler btw).

he has a few new movies coming out robert and I know youll enjoy them just like you enjoy every other seagal movie that you watch...

[SilverWolf33]

Ummm.....why does nobody quote me, does no one like my suggestion with the panda?

[mr. bond]

Originally posted by RobertG

Oh yeah, funny how people assume that a guy who is in better shape and bigger can beat a fat or skinny guy who is not in good shape.

well.......it can happen. if the fat guy's got a lot of experience on the other one.

the head instructor at my school is pretty fat, and short. he humiliates people like our resident 6'3'' cop in sparring. it's pretty amusing, actually.

however, were he in better shape, undoubtedly he would be better. the extra weight and low center can be to your advantage in grappling, though.

[RobertG]

Originally posted by SilverWolf33
Ummm.....why does nobody quote me, does no one like my suggestion with the panda?

I somehow missed your panda suggestion earlier. I'd rather Seagal versus the panda actually. Roy Jones Jr. might actually have a chance. But I'd love to see how ewok explains how Seagal beats a panda. Lets see, he blocks his paws and atemi waza to the neck.

Bond, regarding fat guys....it depends on several factors. I thought I qualified it as fat and out of shape. Sure, I've seen fat guys, that is, guys with high % of body fat, that can move really fast, can kick some ass, and have serious stamina. We all know this phenotype--stocky, a core of solid muscle wrapped in a blanket of blubber. Kind of like a whale or seal. Having been up close and personal with seals before, I can tell you that you don't want to mess with them, even on land. They may have 35% body fat, but they've got 400 lbs. of lean muscle under it and nasty teeth. Same goes for the fat guy at the gym. This is not a beast to be messed with. Look at a sumo yokozuna--sure, the guy has jelly rolls, but he's explosive off the block, can knock your head clear off your neck with those bitch slaps, and has the dexterity to apply nice throws and tip toe on the edge of the ring to maintain balance. Fat, but a serious athelete.

You know what I've noticed seems to be a difference between the true cetacean like human and a wannabe walking whale like Seagal? Jowls. Thats right, those nice rolls of blubber that line the face and give you 2, 3, 4 chins. Seagal has nice jowls. Just like a hound dog. Jowls mean your a softie fat boy. A gut and you might have functional strength, sure. But big jowls hanging off the face, nope. That softie blimp is going to gas out quickly.
Again, lets go back to the sumo example--no jowls. I don't even think the king of lard himself, Konishiki had jowls. Or look at NFL linemen. Big, big boys. Some of them have some gut. But no jowls. Maybe a plump, chubby face, but no rolls of fat hanging off. So since Seagal has a nice set of jowls these days, we can conclude he isn't a badass fatty, but a softie slow lacking in stamina fatty boy. He's probably even got man boobs these days. You don't see him in tank tops anymore, do you? Of course it was a mistake for him to ever wear tank tops given he never had any pecs or upper body development to begin with....but I digress. But yeah, the fat guy with man boobs isn't going to be kicking your ass. So that is how you distinguish dangerous fat boy from pussy fat boy. If its got jowls and boobs, then attack.

[ewod]

Originally posted by RobertG


I somehow missed your panda suggestion earlier. I'd rather Seagal versus the panda actually. Roy Jones Jr. might actually have a chance. But I'd love to see how ewok explains how Seagal beats a panda. Lets see, he blocks his paws and atemi waza to the neck.

Bond, regarding fat guys....it depends on several factors. I thought I qualified it as fat and out of shape. Sure, I've seen fat guys, that is, guys with high % of body fat, that can move really fast, can kick some ass, and have serious stamina. We all know this phenotype--stocky, a core of solid muscle wrapped in a blanket of blubber. Kind of like a whale or seal. Having been up close and personal with seals before, I can tell you that you don't want to mess with them, even on land. They may have 35% body fat, but they've got 400 lbs. of lean muscle under it and nasty teeth. Same goes for the fat guy at the gym. This is not a beast to be messed with. Look at a sumo yokozuna--sure, the guy has jelly rolls, but he's explosive off the block, can knock your head clear off your neck with those bitch slaps, and has the dexterity to apply nice throws and tip toe on the edge of the ring to maintain balance. Fat, but a serious athelete.

You know what I've noticed seems to be a difference between the true cetacean like human and a wannabe walking whale like Seagal? Jowls. Thats right, those nice rolls of blubber that line the face and give you 2, 3, 4 chins. Seagal has nice jowls. Just like a hound dog. Jowls mean your a softie fat boy. A gut and you might have functional strength, sure. But big jowls hanging off the face, nope. That softie blimp is going to gas out quickly.
Again, lets go back to the sumo example--no jowls. I don't even think the king of lard himself, Konishiki had jowls. Or look at NFL linemen. Big, big boys. Some of them have some gut. But no jowls. Maybe a plump, chubby face, but no rolls of fat hanging off. So since Seagal has a nice set of jowls these days, we can conclude he isn't a badass fatty, but a softie slow lacking in stamina fatty boy. He's probably even got man boobs these days. You don't see him in tank tops anymore, do you? Of course it was a mistake for him to ever wear tank tops given he never had any pecs or upper body development to begin with....but I digress. But yeah, the fat guy with man boobs isn't going to be kicking your ass. So that is how you distinguish dangerous fat boy from pussy fat boy. If its got jowls and boobs, then attack.

I think someone is jealous of mr. seagal...its ok robert, you obviously love seagal, but you just dont know how to really show it...*pats robert on the head, everything going to be ok man*...

[ewod]

Originally posted by Tcell
Ewod, you're funny.

Do you think Stephen Livingstone Seagull could beat Obi Wan?
As for blocking Lewis,would he be blocking with his chin or his gut?

whos obi wan? must be another has been... this jealously of seagal is just hilarious to me...

[RobertG]

That's right, everyone is jealous of a fat guy who left his wife and children, didn't pay child support, and has been abusive to his other women. Ummm, yeah, we all wish we could be like him because most of us admire people who beat women.