STEROIDS!?! How dangerous ARE they??

[g-bells]

Wrong.

Roids are healthy, unless abused. Untill you can even begin to refute that, I'm not going to further defend my position. My previous statements will be repeated untill they are inadequate.

It's called case studies. Your point is completely irrelevant. You look at the people who engage in a behavior, or who consume/ingest the substance. That's why they HAVE PROVEN that smoking causes lung cancer. Besides, the science backs it up, on top of the studies done. The reason they can't link roids with any major health issues is because they're generally safe, unless in huge dosages. Even in huge dosages, they've had a HUGE problem likning roids to serious health issues.

are you kidding? no side effects?if properly used

and they have trouble linking head trauma from boxing to parkens(spelling), but Ali is living proof

[fozzy40]

Side Effects...I see your point

Reputable source (uptodate.com) and I have studies to back them up...

Side effects — All androgens have some side effects when taken in high doses; other side effects depend upon the structure of the androgen or the steroids it is converted to. Some side effects occur only in women.

Suppression of endogenous testicular function — All androgens suppress gonadotropin secretion and therefore suppress endogenous testicular function. Spermatogenesis and fertility are greatly diminished by high doses of androgens, although the sperm count usually returns to normal within four months after discontinuation [20]. Testicular size may decrease if androgen administration continues for many years. Gonadotropin and testosterone secretion remain suppressed for a few months after androgens are discontinued.

Gynecomastia — Gynecomastia occurs because testosterone is converted to estradiol via the action of the aromatase enzyme complex, so that high doses of testosterone result in high serum estradiol concentrations. Androgens that have been 5 alpha-reduced, such as dihydrotestosterone and synthetic androgens in which the A ring has been modified, cannot be aromatized and therefore cannot be converted to estrogens and do not cause gynecomastia.

Erythrocytosis — Erythrocytosis is a common side effect of pharmacologic doses of all androgens, probably due largely to direct androgen stimulation of erythropoiesis.

Hepatotoxicity — Hepatic side effects occur only with oral 17-alpha-alkylated androgens and include high serum concentrations of liver enzymes [21], cholestatic jaundice, and peliosis hepatitis, characterized by blood-filled hepatic cysts [22]. Hepatomas have also been reported, but the number of cases is few and causality is uncertain.

Psychological disorders — Many psychological abnormalities have been described, both in the medical literature and anecdotally, in men taking high doses of androgens. Most descriptions are uncontrolled, although in one study an attempt was made to compare men taking and not taking androgens [23]. One hundred sixty men recruited from gymnasia responded to a questionnaire about androgen use and psychiatric symptoms. Psychiatric symptoms, including major mood disorders and aggressive behavior, were more common in the men who had taken androgens than in those who had never taken androgens, and among the former the symptoms were more common when they were taking androgens.

Cardiac disease — The effect of high doses of androgens on cardiac function is uncertain. Several case reports describe sudden death in young athletes who had no previously known heart disease but who were taking androgens; cardiac hypertrophy or myocarditis were found at autopsy [24,25]. It is not possible to establish causality in these sporadic cases. (See "Risk of sudden cardiac death in athletes").

There are also reports of left ventricular hypertrophy in body builders and power lifters, but most of these studies have not been randomized or controlled for degree of exercise, which itself can affect the degree of cardiac hypertrophy [26]. In one randomized, placebo-controlled trial, eight body builders treated with nandrolone decanoate showed no difference in several echocardiographic parameters at the end of eight weeks from those treated with placebo, but this study was limited by the small numbers of subjects and short duration [27].

Serum lipids — Although physiologic doses of testosterone have no consistent effects upon serum lipid concentrations, pharmacologic doses of androgens, especially 17-alpha-alkylated androgens, decrease serum high-density-lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol and increase low-density-lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol concentrations [28].

In a study of normal men aged 30 to 56 years given androstenedione (300 mg/day for 28 days), serum HDL cholesterol concentrations decreased by 15 percent, a change that, in the general population, would predict an increase in risk of coronary heart disease [15].

Coagulation activation — Androgen administration is associated with activation of the hemostatic system. As an example, in one study of 49 weight lifters in whom androgen use was ascertained by history and urine testing. The confirmed steroid users had a higher percentage of abnormally high thrombin–antithrombin complexes in plasma than nonusers (16 versus 6 percent, p=0.01), higher plasma concentrations of prothrombin fragment 1 (44 versus 24 percent, p<0.001), antithrombin III (22 versus 6 percent, p=0.005), and protein S (19 versus 0 percent), and lower plasma concentrations of tissue plasminogen activator and its inhibitor [29]. The importance of hemostatic system activation with regard to risk of thrombosis is unclear.

Virilization — Because men are maximally virilized by physiologic amounts of testosterone, only women athletes are virilized by taking androgens. Specifically, they have facial and body hirsutism, temporal hair recession in a male pattern, acne, and clitoral enlargement.

Premature epiphyseal fusion and stunting of growth — Pharmacologic doses of testosterone or other androgens that can be aromatized to estrogens hasten epiphyseal closure if taken by adolescents whose epiphyses have not yet closed naturally. The number at risk is illustrated by a survey of 873 Indiana high school football players randomly selected from 27 high schools throughout the state [30]. Six percent reported that they were current or former users of androgens; 50 percent first used the drugs before age 14 years and 15 percent before age 10 years.

Infections — Sporadic case reports describe infections due to injection of androgens, including local abscess at the site of injection, septic arthritis, hepatitis B and C, and HIV infection from sharing of needles [31].

[fozzy40]

I know what your gonna say too...these are studies on HIGH doses. Let me ask you this, do you currently have low testosterone? Likely the answer (for your age) is 'no' therefore any additional dose (whether it in low doses) is not in the normal range.

Case studies have the weakest power of evidence since they are based on ONE case. I personally look for studies that observe more than one individual.

I'm not for or against steroids. Do them, low dose, super high doses! It's just annoying when people try to say that they have no side effects.

[g-bells]

I know what your gonna say too...these are studies on HIGH doses. Let me ask you this, do you currently have low testosterone? Likely the answer (for your age) is 'no' therefore any additional dose (whether it in low doses) is not in the normal range.

Case studies have the weakest power of evidence since they are based on ONE case. I personally look for studies that observe more than one individual.

I'm not for or against steroids. Do them, low dose, super high doses! It's just annoying when people try to say that they have no side effects.

Thank you!!!

[DickHardman]

i know a lot of people who juice or have juiced before. there were a lot of guys in highschool were juicing, and they got pretty big and still are, and i doubt they even did it correctly. depends what you take, how you workout, and how you eat. it is possible to make lots of gains and keep them. there was a 110lb asian kid at my highschool who juiced and was weighing in at over 200 lbs by senior year. he went from looking like the asian steve urkle to looking like dwayne johnson. i dont know what he took, but i doubt that he had all the proper knowledge at the time he took that stuff and he stayed huge man. he just kept working out, i think he competes in bodybuilding competitions now. there a lot of people who took roids with no pct and didnt even workout that hardcore who got big and stayed big. it is possible for some people to keep a lot of their gains. there are fools who took 1 cycle of roids and got bigger than i could ever get naturally and worked out way less. ive never juiced btw.

[Knuckles&Knees]

All drugs have side effects. The question whether it is prescribed or over the counter always comes down to *do the benefits outweigh the risks.*

There are different steroids and different ones effect different people differently.

My personal opinion of steroids - especially in light of fast food restaurants, alcohol, and tobacco products - is that in doses of roughly around 1cc taken two to three times a week they are not a huge concern (no more than Miller or Budweiser).

Steroids can harm you, especially if you take steroids in large doses. However, if you want to go on a witch hunt for anything you first need to demonize it. This is what has been done with steroids. I almost bet you more teenagers have died from sex (HIV and other STD's) per capita than from taking steroids. Yet, the media does not demonize teen sex but promotes it as reasonable. And let not even talk about alcohol (which I like by the way) because more people die or destroy homes or commit violent crimes after consumption of alcohol than almost any other substance on earth.

[Garland]

However, if you want to go on a witch hunt for anything you first need to demonize it. This is what has been done with steroids. I almost bet you more teenagers have died from sex (HIV and other STD's) per capita than from taking steroids. Yet, the media does not demonize teen sex but promotes it as reasonable. And let not even talk about alcohol (which I like by the way) because more people die or destroy homes or commit violent crimes after consumption of alcohol than almost any other substance on earth.

AMEN! Truer words have never been spoken.

[fozzy40]

I agree with Knuckle&Knees statement...society tends to turn a blind eye to certain things and not others. In comparison to all of these other things, no I don't think that steroids are as harmful.

If the title of this thread was "ALCOHOL/TOBACCO/FAST FOOD?!? How dangerous ARE they??" I don't think that this would be as lively as a forum. There associations are proven with evidence and well accepted by the public. The only reason why I'm chiming into this discussion is that the steroid use has always been such a "debated" topic: are the side effects real? Yes, the evidence is there. Like alcohol, beer, and fried chicken, may be this [side effects] is one of those things that we are turning a blind eye to...

[DickHardman]

yup, i dont know how healthy those guys organs are, how much they took, what they took, how they trained, or what they ate. all i know is that there were a large number of people who were using as early as freshman and sophomore year at my highschool and some of them got pretty big, and are still big.

[DickHardman]

look how much mass arnold was able to gain at one point.........thats insane LOL..

[Tom Yum]

His muscles were too big. Period. I guess I'm stuck on the functional mindset but I'm sure his mass, cuts & symmetry are forever world class.

[LosVega]

Premabolin:Any info please respond

I am in the process of doing my first cycle of premabolin. I'm Currently 190 and trying get down to 170 with no muscle loss.I am on a 3week twice a day cardio and lifting regiment. I've done excessive research and it seems to be the best for what i am looking to achieve. Is there any additional info you can provide about this product. I’m currently bald so hair loss is not an issue. I haven’t read anything on excessive acne from this or increase in hair. Is this accurate. Feel free to provide any tips on using premabolin. Thanks Los

[Tant01]

Don't..................... There are other ways to enhance your natural constitution.

You might as well be asking about pills to make your dick bigger...

[Garland]

Don't..................... There are other ways to enhance your natural constitution.

You might as well be asking about pills to make your dick bigger...

lol..."extenze"! love the name.

why not "erect-or".

[rickysymo]

keep away

Do not try it. If you are considering buying it... read more about what steroids can do to you and you would know why I am not recommending it.