MT & SanShou differences applicable for street defense

[Rebiu]

Dense as mud on fence

Ok, here we go. What proof will convince me? The proof in those videos. And what does those videos show? That San Shou is a good fighting style in the ring.

Then why does it require special rules to win?

Because you don't know anything about San Shou and you don't know anything about Chinese Kung fu for that matter.

I saw the clips you provided. I witnessed San Shou in action. I met Felix Mitchell in a show in Iowa. He defeated Clayton Miller and lost to Travis Fulton. He really talked up San Shou but he looked like a boxer and was easily beaten by Fultons wrestling. Mitchell had been defeated by Ken Shamrock in the UFC.

The rest of your post is even more laughable. Let's go through them shall we? You know a couple of veterens that never engaged in hand to hand combat? How does that prove anything?

It prooves that hand to hand is not a signifigant part of military training as several of these veterans had used guns and other weapons systems in combat.

A couple means everyone? Nope.

It is more evidence than you provide as you evidently have either known no veterans or none that have used hand to hand fighting in combat.

Second, just because they never engaged in hand to hand combat doesn't mean that they don't train for it.

Some said they had a two hour seminar from some Judo guy or a sargent who knew something, most had nothing. There was no consistent systematic effort to teach them to fight hand to hand

That police do not train in roundhouse kicks? Maybe not your police unit. Chinese police do train in roundhouse kicks and countering.

Maybe they are just stupid. Why would they spend time and money training without equipment? No guns, batons, tazers, or irritants? Maybe they just needed some propoganda for San Shou.

Koreans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoCiKKCB8bQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_vXUnYz50w

This is not training for police work it is a propoganda video.

Russians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8kwjfc3sKY&mode=related&search=

This looks like the two hour seminar stuff used here not a fighting style, no defense against round kicks, just some basic tips.

Again, now who is the idiot here? You I think.

You live in your own world dude.

Ok, next: What system does the US army uses? Kali, Wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai. You need proof they train hand to hand? Watch this video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lo4fMMrrg0

This is a special forces video. There specialized mission may call for more knowledge of hand to hand. My BJJ instuctor rolled with Seal Team six and they were instructed by Marc Denning of The Dog Brothers. They however spent very little time on it. It was the same two hour seminar type situation. There is not comprehensive San Shou type style used by the military as you are claiming. They get just a tiny bit of everything with no testing of advancement.

Again, now who is the idiot here?

You

You I think. I said a bulk of training is for using weapons. Does that imply that I think they don't train hand to hand? Nope. I think you need to learn how to read. A bulk doesn't mean all.

For the tiny bit of exposure some get it may as well mean all. Your contention was the San Shou was developed by the Chinese Military for use in combat it ridiculous. It is for propoganda not real application.

As for whether or not Muay Thai is a product of the military, it doesn't matter. Muay Thai is used in the military. San Shou is used and trained in the military. And if you insist otherwise, you are just plain dumb. Which you are.

It does not matter if Muay Thai is used in the military because it existed independant of that use. You are saying San Shou exist because the military created it not just that the military uses it. That notion is evidence that it is crap not that it is "combat effective"

And your answer to Cung Le shows me you don't even follow San Shou. You don't know anything kid. Retard, lol. Your creadibility on San Shou or martial arts in that matter is zero. Proven over and over again.

You mean this guy
Cung Le V Altman MMa
Pretty lame. He has previously beaten this guy in San Shou and the guy mounts absolutely not offense. Looks like a worked fight. If he is such a big name why is he fighting such a nobody? He also says he trains in kickboxing translation Muay Thai and Wrestling.

"Bajiquan is a joke, a fake style. Ancient chinese secreat."

Hahahahaha. You don't even know what Bajiquan is. A fake style? That is like saying Muay Thai is a fake style.

I would not say that Muay Thai is a fakes style.

LMFAO. Next time, if you can't refute what I said, exit the debate gracefully. Footwork is different? What is the footwork of Bajiquan?

I said the footwork was different from Tiger Kung Fu's spinning elbow.

It is a fake style remember?

Moron.

So how can there be footwork? Kid, give it up. You know nothing about martial arts. Vertical elbows are not exclusive to Muay Thai.

I did not say they were exclusive. I said Muay Thai has unique techniques that other style borrow but do not use as effectivly.

Where are San Shou mma champions? What does that have to do with anything? So if there are no MMA champions, that means the art is not complete? Your logic is that of a six years old.

Is this a substitute for an answer. Where are they.

I think you should go learn more about martial arts and then talk, kid.

Three years Machad Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai from; IMB, Emerald Mongoose, Thin Kong, Boxing from; Kawinin Mau Mau(BJ Penns Boxing Coach). I have been training and sparring for 14 years in California, Iowa, Hawaii and Nebraska. What have you done dumbass.

[Rebiu]

Mensa Candidate

All chinese martial arts summarised: Kung Fu. The last time I checked San Shou/San Da is chinese.

If you could understand context you would know that San Shou was not the Kung Fu that was referenced by the term Kung Fu.

Do you really think soldiers aren't taught how to fight without weapons? So according to you a soldier is defensless when they're out of bullets and lost their knife.

He is defensless and stupid. You think he is going to take on the enemies guns with his roundkick defense?

Duh, just because something is called a spinning elbow doesn't mean it always executed the same way. Of course there's a name that generalizes it, but that's why when we talk about a particular one, we put they exact name in front of it(this case: MT spinning elbow, Tiger style spinning elbow).

So you recognise they are two distict techniques.

Cung le is not that chick from SF II. That's Chun li. Why don't you just admit that Cung le is one of the best fighters these days.

This guy
Cung le is lame

You are forgetting that San Shou is based on chinese martial art systems. So the roundhouse is probably based of a chinese system, but defintly not MT.

I dunno San Shou acknowledges its MT influence and MT has had the side kick(straight thrust) for the last 500 years.

BTW some minor points: you are avoiding the point saying wrestling is not san shou and sanshou is not kung fu. According to you if someone invented a move and 5000 miles somewhere else someone invented that one too. The credit goes to the first dude.

That is not how it happened "dude" The Chinese have a history as claiming to have done everything under the sun one thousand years before anyone else.

Basicly your post is flawed and it's enough to wipe my ass with

You have some peculiar hygene. Considering your capacity to understand what is said to you I suggest that is may be the best us you will get from this or any other written word.

[Rebiu]

SanShou fan

first of all veterans are veterans because they are old.

I thought it was because of their military service. I know veterans who are 30 years old.

they were not put into the environments of today. they weren’t storming buildings they were in trenches.

I know veterans form the second gulf war.

Many cops are fat, therefore they cant lift there legs. what happens if he doesn’t have a baton and or flashlight?

I would assume he has a gun and backup.

Most cops lack any real fighting period.

Cops are horrible undertrained and underskilled but they do have at least some real experience.

Most all cops are never put to the test.

Bullshit people resist all the time.

No one wants to go to jail because of the fear of having you being their when they drop the soap. If the cops ever pulled over someone who wasn't drunk and actually had some teeth and common sense they wouldn't be in good shape. Evidence? Yes.http://youtube.com/watch?v=BmjDaR-fqQM
3.vs.1...I think that could have ended a lot faster.... But they had there batons....so it was ok.

First you say no one resists then you show a clip of someone resisting. They police subdue the person in a few seconds and you say they could have done it faster. The police in you video do not try to trade punches they use their equipment just like all police. You are prooving my contention that police do not use martial arts or general fighting training they use training specialized to their equipment and purpose.

What art isn’t a compilation? What art doesn’t try to be complete?

Arts are defined by a set of moves that are taught. Sports are defined by their rules.

as for no fighters with takedown defense, you might need to look into that a bit more. Wrestling is involved just as much as boxing and muay thai seeing as how that’s a means to score points.

I can't find it maybe you could show me the evidence.

[Rebiu]

I knew a guy who went to Mexico.

i think i heard somewhere that to become a policeman or something in china you have to pass a black belt test in shuai jiao

I knew a guy who went to Mexico. The police wore no uniforms, had no guns and demanded money from them.

[Rebiu]

you said it.

hard to palm with a boxing glove on

Boy I'll say especially when the other guy is raining closed fisted punches down on you.

[Mephariel]

Then why does it require special rules to win?I saw the clips you provided. I witnessed San Shou in action. I met Felix Mitchell in a show in Iowa. He defeated Clayton Miller and lost to Travis Fulton. He really talked up San Shou but he looked like a boxer and was easily beaten by Fultons wrestling. Mitchell had been defeated by Ken Shamrock in the UFC. It prooves that hand to hand is not a signifigant part of military training as several of these veterans had used guns and other weapons systems in combat.It is more evidence than you provide as you evidently have either known no veterans or none that have used hand to hand fighting in combat.Some said they had a two hour seminar from some Judo guy or a sargent who knew something, most had nothing. There was no consistent systematic effort to teach them to fight hand to handMaybe they are just stupid. Why would they spend time and money training without equipment? No guns, batons, tazers, or irritants? Maybe they just needed some propoganda for San Shou.This is not training for police work it is a propoganda video.This looks like the two hour seminar stuff used here not a fighting style, no defense against round kicks, just some basic tips.You live in your own world dude.This is a special forces video. There specialized mission may call for more knowledge of hand to hand. My BJJ instuctor rolled with Seal Team six and they were instructed by Marc Denning of The Dog Brothers. They however spent very little time on it. It was the same two hour seminar type situation. There is not comprehensive San Shou type style used by the military as you are claiming. They get just a tiny bit of everything with no testing of advancement. YouFor the tiny bit of exposure some get it may as well mean all. Your contention was the San Shou was developed by the Chinese Military for use in combat it ridiculous. It is for propoganda not real application.It does not matter if Muay Thai is used in the military because it existed independant of that use. You are saying San Shou exist because the military created it not just that the military uses it. That notion is evidence that it is crap not that it is "combat effective"You mean this guy
Cung Le V Altman MMa
Pretty lame. He has previously beaten this guy in San Shou and the guy mounts absolutely not offense. Looks like a worked fight. If he is such a big name why is he fighting such a nobody? He also says he trains in kickboxing translation Muay Thai and Wrestling.I would not say that Muay Thai is a fakes style.I said the footwork was different from Tiger Kung Fu's spinning elbow.Moron.I did not say they were exclusive. I said Muay Thai has unique techniques that other style borrow but do not use as effectivly.Is this a substitute for an answer. Where are they.Three years Machad Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai from; IMB, Emerald Mongoose, Thin Kong, Boxing from; Kawinin Mau Mau(BJ Penns Boxing Coach). I have been training and sparring for 14 years in California, Iowa, Hawaii and Nebraska. What have you done dumbass.

First of all, you been training for 14 years and you know jack shit about martial arts? What have you been doing? Playing in the ground by yourself? You haven't been training jack shit. And you know jack shit about San Shou. And this post proves it once again. Ok, let's go through the points: Why do San Shou needs special rules to win. San Shou needs as much special rules to win as say...boxing and MMA. Why do boxing needs to prohibit kicking to win? Why do MMA needs special rules that allows groundfighting to win? Do you think Matt Hughes can win in a boxing arena with boxing rules against top boxers? That is the dumbest question ever. Different styles and different fighting medium focus on different things. San Shou doesn't need special rules to win. San Shou have rules that is gear towards the nature of the style, just like boxing and Wrestling competitions have rules that is gear towards their nature of the sport. You saw Felix Mitchell? Felix Mitchell lost to Ken Shamrock in a MMA contest in 1994 when San Shou is barely a sport. How actually did you witness San Shou again? Again, this shows how desperate you are. Felix Mitchell a good representation of San Shou? How is he even a San Shou expert? LMAO. Your next point is even more ridiculous:

"It prooves that hand to hand is not a signifigant part of military training as several of these veterans had used guns and other weapons systems in combat.It is more evidence than you provide as you evidently have either known no veterans or none that have used hand to hand fighting in combat.Some said they had a two hour seminar from some Judo guy or a sargent who knew something, most had nothing."

First of all, you said it is not a significant part of military training. You are just playing with semantics. Hand to hand combat supplements armed combat. That is the truth. Many armies around the world developed their own CQC systems throughout the years. You know a couple of veterans that doesn't engage in hand to hand combat? How does that refute my point that San Shou and other arts are on the training program of their respective military? I am looking for evidence dude. A couple of veterans isn't proof that San Shou wasn't developed by the military. Krav Maga for example, was developed by the Israel Special Forces and is used in the Israel's military. Krav Maga is the official system of hand-to-hand combat and self-defense employed by the Israeli Defense Forces, Security Forces, the Israeli Police and Military Police and its Special Operations and Anti-Terrorist Units. The IDF including their Special Forces Units, Israeli Police, and Internal Security Branches currently uses this style on a day-to-day basis. You need more videos to educate you? So how exactly is this propaganda? Likewise, what exactly do you have that prove San Shou wasn't created by the military? I live in my own world? You are right. That world is called reality. Which world do you live in? Should I trust experts that wrote books about San Shou and my history of following the art, or should I trust an internet kid like Rebiu who knows jack crap about the art? Even your mother wouldn't trust you on San Shou information.

Your contention was the San Shou was developed by the Chinese Military for use in combat it ridiculous. It is for propoganda not real application.

No, your lack of proof is ridiculous. It is not for real application? Then why is San Shou martial artists beating Muay Thai and kickboxing fighters in the ring? Where is the evidence that it is not for real application again?

Here is the bottomline:

You claimed San Shou is not created by the military: You have no proof to back it up.

You claimed San Shou training videos are propaganda: You have no proof to back it up.

You claimed that San Shou is crap: You have no proof to back it up.

Until you do, you are just a little kid spewing crap. You can talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk.

Pretty lame. He has previously beaten this guy in San Shou and the guy mounts absolutely not offense. Looks like a worked fight. If he is such a big name why is he fighting such a nobody?

And with each post, you get dumber. Cung Le's fight with Altman is his first ever MMA fight. Of course he is fighting nobody. Who do you think he'll start off fighting? GSP? LOL.

He also says he trains in kickboxing translation Muay Thai and Wrestling.I would not say that Muay Thai is a fakes style.I said the footwork was different from Tiger Kung Fu's spinning elbow.Moron.

HAHAHAHAHA. First he tried to guess what Bajiquan is. Then he failed. Now he talking about Tiger Kung Fu...spinning elbow...

Give it up. You know nothing about Chinese martial arts. MORON.

[Mephariel]

If you could understand context you would know that San Shou was not the Kung Fu that was referenced by the term Kung Fu.He is defensless and stupid. You think he is going to take on the enemies guns with his roundkick defense? So you recognise they are two distict techniques.This guy
Cung le is lameI dunno San Shou acknowledges its MT influence and MT has had the side kick(straight thrust) for the last 500 years.That is not how it happened "dude" The Chinese have a history as claiming to have done everything under the sun one thousand years before anyone else.You have some peculiar hygene. Considering your capacity to understand what is said to you I suggest that is may be the best us you will get from this or any other written word.

So what is kung fu kid? Let see what you know. What are the techniques that makes something kung fu? MT has had the side kick for the last 500 years? That it? Shaolin has the sidekick for a thousand years.

"That is not how it happened "dude"

Yeah, nice evidence. Oh wait, he comes that smell again...

You have some peculiar hygene. Considering your capacity to understand what is said to you I suggest that is may be the best us you will get from this or any other written word.

You don't have the capacity to understand martial arts dude. Just leave the boards. HAHA.

[Clooneytkd]

I know The police in you video do not try to trade punches they use their equipment just like all police. You are prooving my contention that police do not use martial arts or general fighting training they use training specialized to their equipment and purpose.Arts are defined by a set of moves that are taught. Sports are defined by their rules. I can't find it maybe you could show me the evidence.

Ha, the fact that all the cops had to do is have one well placed knee doesn’t help your argument. watch the video again. you will see so many openings. The scuffle could have been over in a matter of seconds. But the cops lack of training in combat situations, especially when there are 3 on 1 really shows. I mean that’s pathetic, 3 grown men against one guy. Allot of good there mace and batons did them in that situation. the guy's head was down for about 3 minutes and the cops sat their macing themselves and getting chairs thrown at them. Oh yeah, I forgot the guys Rambo’s brother so taking on a bunch of cops and beating the crap out of them is acceptable

.http://youtube.com/watch?v=BmjDaR-fqQM

[MSand114]

you both are meanies

[Tom Yum]

That notion is evidence that it is crap not that it is "combat effective"You mean this guy
Cung Le V Altman MMa Pretty lame. He has previously beaten this guy in San Shou and the guy mounts absolutely not offense. Looks like a worked fight. If he is such a big name why is he fighting such a nobody? He also says he trains in kickboxing translation Muay Thai and Wrestling.

The fight may have looked like it was worked and may have been, but I will step in and say that Mike Altman knows his stuff....

Last I remembered, he was between the cruiserweight and heavyweight class and had fought a number of kickboxing fights in K-1 Strikeforce under international muaythai rules. He also sweeped up in a number of fights in local MMA.

He was also the first American I believe to win an international San Shou title in China in an elimination style tournament.

He is a really good boxer, a fighter to the core and actually comes from a wingchun background.

[Rebiu]

Not to mention they are not to bright either.

you both are meanies

Not to mention they are not to bright either. Though it does not need to be said as there posts make it abundantly clear.

[mma_life]

Muay Thai takes it for sure!

I have trained both styles and seen the effects of both, Muay Thai takes it on this one over SanShou for sure!

[Rebiu]

Because Kung Fu sucks.

China: Country of 1.1 billion. Scores of different Kung Fu styles and now this "wonderful" San Shou style. There must be hundreds of quality fighters in China.........HOW COME NONE OF THEM HAVE COME FORWARD AND WON THE K1???

I guess because Kung Fu sucks.

[Eagleye]

I guess because Kung Fu sucks.

Please tell me your joking.

[Mephariel]

Please tell me your joking.

Of course he is joking. He knows nothing about kung fu. He IS a JOKE.