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**Khun Kao** · 03-20-2006, 01:54 PM

The Axe Kick didn't land, it was caught.

**jubaji** · 03-20-2006, 02:03 PM

That didn't go very well for the TKD fella.

**Tom Yum** · 03-20-2006, 02:16 PM

I'd like to hear commentary from some of our resident TKD practitioners. Why do you think the fight didn't go well for the TKD fighter? Mismatch? The rules took away alot of good MT tools, leaving him with 2 kicks. This would put the odds in favor of TKD guy based on kicking techniques.

TKD guy lands a half-dozen lead leg side kicks that connect dead center into the MT guy's midsection and judging the smack noise and fluttering of MT guy's head from those kicks, they were solid kicks.

TKD guy's technique was quite good and he initiated most of the attacks.

**Drag'n** · 03-21-2006, 07:53 AM

It seems pretty obvious to me. POWER!
I did TKD for 7 years before I started MT.
TKD focuses on point fighting, where simply connecting with your opponent scores you a point. MT is full contact so you're trying to KO or severely HURT your opponent. TKD kicks can be fast and deceptive but they lack power. To a Thai fighter those TKD kicks were a joke. He'd hardly feel it.
On the other hand the TKD fighter was getting slammed with a kind of power hes probably never experienced.
TKD kicks can be made more effective though, when you combine them with the power kicks, and strong defence of MT.
But Pure TKD by itself will loose nearly every time against a decent MT fighter.

**eXcessiveForce** · 03-21-2006, 08:49 AM

okay from what I see the TKD guy has a few problems.

One he is not used to throwing or recieving kicks to the legs. This is a big problem.

He fails to rechamber kicks and then they are grabbed, and his base leg kicked out. (this is a place for jump kicks, you can't hit a base leg that isn't there.

Failure to commit. He is not leaning into the kicks and is losing a lot of power.

Improper strategy. Thai guys are used to taking kicks to the belly besides his lack of the ability to target properly, missing nearly all of his spin kicks, he hits in the belly, not the sternum or ribs where he might be able to get a break. He stands their and absorbs the leg kicks while the leg stays on the ground. He trades, He throws a kick and then backs out or gets tangled.

removing head kicks from TKD is a huge disadvantage when one doesn't have experience kicking below the belt. That being said, Removing elbows from Thai is a huge disadvantage.

The TKD guy should have waited at the edge of the MT guys range and waited till he tried a kick, move out of range for it to miss and then came in with kicks.

The axe kick should have been thrown with force, it was more just dropped and it should have hit clavical not chest.

This TKD person was not agressive, Since they tried to stay back and do single technique entries they took way more punishment than they should of.

**kuk sool won** · 03-21-2006, 09:30 AM

These days any basic TKD fighters who just go for the powerful roundhouses kicks, side kicks etc. is classed as a Muay Thai fighter, so any class that does come through is disregarded as TKD and regarded as MT. If I started to compete in kick boxing again using my KSW fighting style i wouldn't to be a KSW practioner to the world, i'd be a KB.

**Tom Yum** · 03-21-2006, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce

Failure to commit. He is not leaning into the kicks and is losing a lot of power..

When TKD guy lands the side kick, the MT guys head vibrates - that's an indication of a pretty forcefull kick. Then again, the lead leg side kick is used as a jab, but lands with twice the power of a boxers jab.

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce

Improper strategy.Thai guys are used to taking kicks to the belly besides his lack of the ability to target properly, missing nearly all of his spin kicks, he hits in the belly, not the sternum or ribs where he might be able to get a break. He stands their and absorbs the leg kicks while the leg stays on the ground. He trades, He throws a kick and then backs out or gets tangled...

Maybe lack of experience against MT fighters. TKD sees the MT guys stomach wide open and just goes for that target, probably not realizing all of the impact he's used to dealing with. However, there have been American fighters who have landed a well timed spinning back kick and have floored MT fighters.

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce

removing head kicks from TKD is a huge disadvantage when one doesn't have experience kicking below the belt. That being said, Removing elbows from Thai is a huge disadvantage.

The TKD guy should have waited at the edge of the MT guys range and waited till he tried a kick, move out of range for it to miss and then came in with kicks. ...

Agreed. TKD guy should have used fakes. Eg. Throw one of those hard side kicks that lands, fake another one to get the MT fighters defenses up and maybe enough distance to set up a spinning back kick.

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce

This TKD person was not agressive, since they tried to stay back and do single technique entries they took way more punishment than they should of.

Was he trying to gauge the MT fighter to look for openings? The only opening he found was with that lead leg side kick to the gut. He was fairly aggressive, initiating most of the attacks, he may have lacked footwork/faking.

Anyhow, TKD dude has heart. I'm going to try and find clips of TKD/karate based fighters who have done well against MT fighters (and not the clips of fights in Korea that pit TKD champ vs. MT newbie).

**Damian Mavis** · 03-22-2006, 02:50 PM

?!

Uhm, ok Im going to assume my background in muay thai and TKD is why I can see this and nobody else can... its the same old story. Just common sense guys. If you put in a fighter that uses a DIFFERENT rule set and put them into a new format they will be severely handicapped.

Whether its his arrogance or stupidity or lack of proper notice the TKD guy did not prepare for this fight. I dont know about you guys but when I see a leg kick coming I FREAKING SHIELD. Before I stepped in the ring here I trained muay thai for almost 3 years back in Canada, my reflexes for keeping my leg from getting grabbed and for shielding the leg kick were pretty good. This guy had absolutely no such reflexes.

If you put either of those guys in a Judo format with a judo fighter they would also be severely handicapped unless they prepared sufficiently. Common sense. TKD fighters never have to deal with the leg grab or the leg kick so unless they train the defence for it they will easily fall prey to it. I see the same thing when sport TKD guys spar with my students (ITF TKD) and they just blink when they get punch in the face because no ones ever done that to them before.

After saying all that, that TKD fighter was from my style (ITF) and I can tell you straight up that for a 4th degree and up (black stripes on the legs and arms) he sucked major bumbum. He had awful timing, especially for the spinning back side kick.... he tried 3 times and missed each time, thats from improper and unrealistic training. He sux.

How do I post video? Anyone?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

**Tom Yum** · 03-22-2006, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

After saying all that, that TKD fighter was from my style (ITF) and I can tell you straight up that for a 4th degree and up (black stripes on the legs and arms) he sucked major bumbum. He had awful timing, especially for the spinning back side kick.... he tried 3 times and missed each time, thats from improper and unrealistic training. He sux.

How do I post video? Anyone?

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

Thanks Damian. I don't mock TKD, because I've known fellows who can kick high, cold and hard and have won fights by KO. But agree on the lack of prepairdness on the TKD dudes part - he seemed a little bit over confident by his expression.

Try using the manage attachments option to post a video.

**eXcessiveForce** · 03-22-2006, 04:45 PM

That's what I was getting at with my post.

However if he would have been more agressive he may have avoided the punishing leg kicks and his ineptness might not have show so much. (being the agressor be initinting contact, and being agressive by one continuous assault that goes until the other person hits the deck are two entirely different things.)

**7r14ngL3Ch0k3** · 03-24-2006, 01:56 AM

Why do you have to bash TKD?!? No MA is better than another! MT guys are just athletes, TKD guys are real deal!

**eXcessiveForce** · 03-24-2006, 02:00 AM

who's bashing tkd?

**Damian Mavis** · 03-24-2006, 03:02 AM

I don't think Triangle Choke read the whole thread, or he's stupid.....

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD Thailand

**okimura** · 03-26-2006, 11:30 PM

I've seen videos like this and the result is always the same, the TKD guy is just not able to cope with the MT leg kicks, so every time TKD guy goes to kick, it gets caught and his legs are kicked out from under him.

The other thing that often happens is that the TKD kicks get jammed, so they don't have much power. In the video, the MT guy got inside the range of the spinning kicks, so they didn't do much to him. We have a joke among the members of a thai boxing club that I'm in. We say, how do you defeat a TKD guy? The answer: take a step closer.

That being said, I've seen TKD guys KO an opponent with a spinning back kick. I'm not trying to bash TKD. I respect it. It's not inferior to MT, just different in some ways that seem to give it a disadvantage in a ring match. A

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