Everyone is wearing Thai trunks.

[Ta2dthaiboxr]

We got Thai shorts the first day. That's kind of our "uniform" (school shirt & Muay Thai shorts). It works for our school.

[Bryan Popejoy]

Just to throw a curve on things.....when the first US branch of Fairtex opened up in Arizona in the early 1990's, shorts were an earned, tested for item.

So although in Thailand, shorts are shorts.....in the US, at a gym run by and taught by Thais, you had to earn the right to wear them.

My personal opinion? It's not the shorts that matter, it's who is wearing them.

[WhiteTiger]

...

ok. So now I am woundering. How do you test the students and how good should thay be?. Is it. You can kick good but not perfect grade? Or how is it.
And whate grades are thay then?

[Khun Kao]

I understand the confusion many have over the practice of a MuayThai "Grading System", because "real" MuayThai doesn't have one.

In my own experience, it stems from the American martial arts culture, or rather, American's martial arts expectations! In the U.S. the 'culture' of martial arts is that you test for rank and earn colored belts. That is what Americans expect. Blame it on Judo. Blame it on Karate. Blame it on Taekwondo. Blame it on the White House.... it simply doesn't matter. The American public, in general, equates martial arts training with starched white uniforms, board-breaking, and colored belts. The popularity of the UFC is starting to change this perception, but I am willing to bet if you asked your average lay-person about martial arts training, they'd mention earning colored belts as part of the learning process.

So MuayThai starts to make its appearance here in the States in what? The 70's, while the martial arts industry is experiencing a bit of a "boom" due to the popularity of Kung Fu films (especially those with Bruce Lee). These movies do nothing to dispel the notion of a ranking system based on colored belts (though they don't 'exactly' support it, either). So Thai coaches are finding themselves trying to meet public demand to teach their art.

Back in Thailand, Thai's are used to repetitive training drills.... pretty much coming to train each day and following the same routine. Its expected. You do as your coach instructs you to do or you don't fight. If you don't fight, you don't get paid. If you don't get paid, you don't eat. MuayThai is a lifestyle, not a hobby.

But here in the USA, not only do people not NEED to fight to support themselves, but even those who would/could do so do not have the venues in which to fight and earn a living wage. MuayThai is NOWHERE NEAR as popular as Boxing or even Professional Wrestling, and there simply is not any real system in place to support it. Even today as it is gaining in popularity due to UFC & MMA fights, it still does not have an effective system in place to provide opportunities to fight and earn money.

So here in the States, people train in MuayThai predominantly as a form of exercise and self-defense. Unfortunately, due to martial arts being a recreation as opposed to being a career path, this changes the culture of the gym. In Thailand, the training is simple, INTENSE, and repetitive. But that is the way it is EXPECTED to be. Here in the USA & abroad, people simply aren't willing to sacrifice their bodies in such a way for what is viewed as a hobby. The intensity needs to be seriously dampened, and the training cannot become too repetitive or your students rapidly become bored and will find another hobby.

This is how & why ranking systems have come into play. It makes it much simpler for a MuayThai coach to maintain the focus of his students, by having a goal for them to attain aside from simply working out.

If the same structure system was in place for fighters outside of Thailand to compete in MuayThai as exists IN Thailand, then I am willing to be that this whole conversation of colored shorts and ranking systems would be completely moot.

[Rickster]

I understand the confusion many have over the practice of a MuayThai "Grading System", because "real" MuayThai doesn't have one.

Neither does "real" Chuan Fa (Gong Fu), Karate, Jiu Jitsu, etc.,

In my own experience, it stems from the American culture, or should I say, American's expectations! In the U.S. the 'culture' of martial arts is that you test for rank and earn colored belts. That is what Americans expect. Blame it on Judo. Blame it on Karate. Blame it on Taekwondo. Blame it on the White House.... it simply doesn't matter. The American public, in general, equates martial arts training with starched white uniforms, board-breaking, and colored belts. The popularity of the UFC is starting to change this perception, but I am willing to be if you asked your average lay-person about martial arts training, they'd mention earning colored belts as part of the learning process.

Of course, Americans have to affix a value to something. but in martial arts, this can be a false entity. For example a person with a 4th dan belt is not sbjected to be two times, 2x, better than one of 2nd dan.

So MuayThai starts to make its appearance here in the States in what? The 70's, while the martial arts industry is experiencing a bit of a "boom" due to the popularity of Kung Fu films (especially those with Bruce Lee). These movies do nothing to dispel the notion of a ranking system based on colored belts (though they don't 'exactly' support it, either). So Thai coaches are finding themselves trying to meet public demand to teach their art.

The public demand is laso the sunstomers. Customers=profit.

Back in Thailand, Thai's are used to repetitive training drills.... pretty much coming to train each day and following the same routine. Its expected. You do as your coach instructs you to do or you don't fight. If you don't fight, you don't get paid. If you don't get paid, you don't eat. MuayThai is a lifestyle, not a hobby.

Exactly. which why I think the need to do hardcore conditong such as shin, knuckle, etc., over kill.

But here in the USA, not only do people not NEED to fight to support themselves, but even those who would/could do so do not have the venues in which to fight and earn a living wage. MuayThai is NOWHERE NEAR as popular as Boxing or even Professional Wrestling, and there simply is not any real system in place to support it. Even today as it is gaining in popularity due to UFC & MMA fights, it still does not have an effective system in place to provide opportunities to fight and earn money.

Per my reponse above. In many civilized and highly social environments, fighting is a mere entertainment. And one not justifiable for survival.

So here in the States, people train in MuayThai predominantly as a form of exercise and self-defense. Unfortunately, due to martial arts being a recreation as opposed to being a career path, this changes the culture of the gym. In Thailand, the training is simple, INTENSE, and repetitive. But that is the way it is EXPECTED to be. Here in the USA & abroad, people simply aren't willing to sacrifice their bodies in such a way for what is viewed as a hobby. The intensity needs to be seriously dampened, and the training cannot become too repetitive or your students rapidly become bored and will find another hobby.

How true.

This is how & why ranking systems have come into play. It makes it much simpler for a MuayThai coach to maintain the focus of his students, by having a goal for them to attain aside from simply working out.

becuase the students are not "hungry" to survive.

If the same structure system was in place for fighters outside of Thailand to compete in MuayThai as exists IN Thailand, then I am willing to be that this whole conversation of colored shorts and ranking systems would be completely moot.

Of course. In Thailand the color of the shorts wont determine the outcome.

[Tom Yum]

Rickster, I think the belt (or shorts) thing is simply a way of certifying that someone was able to perform up to a certain standard. Its also a way of generating revenue for the business owner (in some cases a black belt test alone can cost upward of $1,000!! )...that's a little unfair in my personal opinion, but that's business.

Overall I don't think the belt system is a bad thing unless the school is producing 1st dans that have never sparred or grappled and are over charging.

Ideally, the school produces black belts who not only become better, well rounded citizens and martial artists but also those who can demonstrate their art against some resistance.

[WhiteTiger]

Ok..Much text there khun Kao.. But you dident answer my question. How do you grade the students. And yes it ofcourse many ppl whant do all the Thai stuff. But that you can get by in letting beginners train with beginners and have diffrent classses. And for the advanced ppl. You have the brutal thai style aprotch to the trining.

( Exuse me for my spelling )

[Python]

Ok..Much text there khun Kao.. But you dident answer my question. How do you grade the students. And yes it ofcourse many ppl whant do all the Thai stuff. But that you can get by in letting beginners train with beginners and have diffrent classses. And for the advanced ppl. You have the brutal thai style aprotch to the trining.

( Exuse me for my spelling )

I dont have time right now, but I will paste our grading system up here tomorrow as an example, but this is only ours, others may and will vary.

[GranFire]

***just can't shake the image of figleaves - nvm, carry on***

[chalambok]

In the vein of this thread, but in a correctingly humorous manner, I think the question should be "Why aren't more people wearing Thai short pants?" Is it poor marketing on our part? Is it misguided egocentrism and elitism? Is it muay Thai itself that puts people off, or is it our manners? Jeez, I hope I am losing my hair, not that my head is growing too big for my hair. Personally, I have sold about 60 pairs of short pants since 1994, and I have only seen a couple since then. I don't think they are wearing them at the beach, or as pajamas. Do you think they might be hanging on the wall as souvenirs?

[Khun Kao]

In the vein of this thread, but in a correctingly humorous manner, I think the question should be "Why aren't more people wearing Thai short pants?" Is it poor marketing on our part? Is it misguided egocentrism and elitism? Is it muay Thai itself that puts people off, or is it our manners? Jeez, I hope I am losing my hair, not that my head is growing too big for my hair. Personally, I have sold about 60 pairs of short pants since 1994, and I have only seen a couple since then. I don't think they are wearing them at the beach, or as pajamas. Do you think they might be hanging on the wall as souvenirs?

I'm kinda surprised as well, considering how easy Thai shorts are to come by, and for a decent price. You can find them all over the place for about $20 or less. Granted, the nicer ones will cost you up to twice that, but still.....

[Khun Kao]

Ok..Much text there khun Kao.. But you dident answer my question. How do you grade the students. And yes it ofcourse many ppl whant do all the Thai stuff. But that you can get by in letting beginners train with beginners and have diffrent classses. And for the advanced ppl. You have the brutal thai style aprotch to the trining.

As I've already said, at this time I don't really "grade" my students. Again, not because I'm against the idea, but its just something I never got around to doing. I've experimented with adopting a grading structure a few times in the past, but I've never felt comfortable enough with it to really "make it fly".

I kinda let things "shake out" on their own. What I mean is that I essentially think of my students in 3 different categories.

NOVICES: These are the people who have only been with me a short time and haven't learned all their basic skills yet. Most people should be part of this group for approximately 90 days. There are some people who HAVE been with me longer than the 90-day introductory period who still fall into this category simply because no matter how much we try, they simply don't "get it" yet.... The focus of this group is for them to learn/comprehend the basic skills.

*I actually have a novice program I've developed for this 90-day period called the "MuayThai F.S.S." program. F.S.S. stands for "Foundation, Structure, & Strategy". It is a blend of Bareknuckle & Sport MuayThai techniques, but taught *mostly* from the perspective of ring fighting. It's major focus is on proper stance, guard, and footwork. It is a constantly evolving program, though, as the more I learn, the more I go back and add to the program.

REGULARS: These are the people who have been with my class long enough that they pretty much know all their basics. Doesn't necessarily mean they are good, but they comprehend enough of what they are doing that they aren't slowing class up. This group covers a wide range of skill level, as you can imagine. We focus this group mostly on getting a good workout while making subtle corrections to their technique.

ADVANCED/FIGHTERS: These are the people who are being groomed to fight, are already fighters, or who have been with me long enough that they have most of the material down and are even able to assist with the less experienced students. This groups focus is on conditioning, conditioning, conditioning.... and on the "tricks" of the trade and learning ring strategy.

[47MartialMan]

In the vein of this thread, but in a correctingly humorous manner, I think the question should be "Why aren't more people wearing Thai short pants?" Is it poor marketing on our part? Is it misguided egocentrism and elitism? Is it muay Thai itself that puts people off, or is it our manners? Jeez, I hope I am losing my hair, not that my head is growing too big for my hair. Personally, I have sold about 60 pairs of short pants since 1994, and I have only seen a couple since then. I don't think they are wearing them at the beach, or as pajamas. Do you think they might be hanging on the wall as souvenirs?

Nah, they are getting ripped and soiled

[47MartialMan]

I'm kinda surprised as well, considering how easy Thai shorts are to come by, and for a decent price. You can find them all over the place for about $20 or less. Granted, the nicer ones will cost you up to twice that, but still.....

I know a seamtress that can make a couple of custom ones. But will they still be Thai? Thai short look no diferent than pattern boxer?

[Khun Kao]

I know a seamtress that can make a couple of custom ones. But will they still be Thai? Thai short look no diferent than pattern boxer?

Its not WHO makes the trunks, its HOW. There is a specific style/cut to the trunks for MuayThai, and it is NOT the same as regular boxing trunks. Heck, I think a fair amount of MuayThai trunks and gear aren't even made in Thailand anyway. A lot of it is made in Pakistan.