Everyone is wearing Thai trunks.

[sportmuaythai]

You seem to be a very closed minded person. I did not say I tested the students to colored shorts. I said their first test was to earn shorts, the color is irrevelant. From that point their test are just to the next level. I do not have a whole rank structure, like some schools. You have missed my point and you have missed Khun Kao's as well.

Very well said, because if it were in Thailand, I'll bet these students would blush from snickers and jeers. BTW do you charge for testing? Also, are these coloured shorts more expensive than normal? It's my personal view that the trainer is not capable of making his training interesting and productive enough, so he has to resort to commercial gimmicks as incentive to retain his students .

Dear Python, I wasn't exactly making issue of the colours. I was just questioning if the testing cost extra money, ie to wear boxing shorts you must pass test, and to test, you have to pay the extra testing fee. I don't see why I'm closed minded about that.

I gotta say though, this is not getting heated and is an interesting discussion. I am intrigued by the varying opinions on the topic.

I totally agree. I'm puzzled that Americans put more emphasis on accessories ( shorts and arm bands etc.) than Thais do.

[WildWest.]

I've done MT for 10 years. For the first 3 years I wore normal shorts to training.....then I bought some Thai shorts. You don't need rankings and all that other bollocks for an art that is simple. If you love it then you will train.

[Python]

I beg to differ from your opinion, Khunkao. I think that you're in contempt of your students. With proper encouragement and interesting as well as productive training, I think students will look foreward more to training than to seek recognition from coloured shorts. Nevertheless, I have nothing against colored status symbols for kids 12 years old or younger.

You seem to be a very closed minded person. I did not say I tested the students to colored shorts. I said their first test was to earn shorts, the color is irrevelant. From that point their test are just to the next level. I do not have a whole rank structure, like some schools. You have missed my point and you have missed Khun Kao's as well.

Also, I dont believe there is MT and "American" MT. there is Muay Thai period, taught all over the world. We dont change the Muay Thai in its essence to be "American".

My students do not need a test to stay interested. The training is plenty to keep them coming back, in fact they love it. I place the shorts test as the first level because i want them to respect the shorts and what they stand for a bit more than just buying them and saying, "Hey I do Muay Thai". Anyone can do that.

I gotta say though, this is not getting heated and is an interesting discussion. I am intrigued by the varying opinions on the topic.

[47MartialMan]

there was a documentary here about usa mt kickboxers competing in barenuckle matches in thailand vs thai kickboxers. both the main usa kickboxers knocked out their opponents.

dutch kickboxers are also known to be quite good.

BUT YOU DID NOT ANSWER MY SECOND QUESTION-

Does Thai MT square off combatants according to size and weight?

[sportmuaythai]

there was a documentary here about usa mt kickboxers competing in barenuckle matches in thailand vs thai kickboxers. both the main usa kickboxers knocked out their opponents.

dutch kickboxers are also known to be quite good.

Lol. Yes US fighters can beat the heck out of Thai MT fighters. I've also seen those fights broadcasted live on TV. But you should be aware that they were mismatched fights. The Americans were fighting no name fighters, at great weight advantage.

[sportmuaythai]

Outside of Thailand, "commercial gimmicks" (as you put it) are a necessary part of martial arts. Without those gimmicks to dangle in front of their noses, why the hell would they put themselves through the rough and tumble training that MuayThai offers? They could take up ballroom dancing instead!

I beg to differ from your opinion, Khunkao. I think that you're in contempt of your students. With proper encouragement and interesting as well as productive training, I think students will look foreward more to training than to seek recognition from coloured shorts. Nevertheless, I have nothing against colored status symbols for kids 12 years old or younger.

[3mptin3ss]

Can American MT beat Thai Mt? Does Thai MT suquare off combatants according to size and weight?

there was a documentary here about usa mt kickboxers competing in barenuckle matches in thailand vs thai kickboxers. both the main usa kickboxers knocked out their opponents.

dutch kickboxers are also known to be quite good.

[47MartialMan]

Can American MT beat Thai Mt? Does Thai MT suquare off combatants according to size and weight?

[Khun Kao]

Very well said, because if it were in Thailand, I'll bet these students would blush from snickers and jeers. BTW do you charge for testing? Also, are these coloured shorts more expensive than normal? It's my personal view that the trainer is not capable of making his training interesting and productive enough, so he has to resort to commercial gimmicks as incentive to retain his students .

Difference in cultures. In Thailand, MuayThai is a job. Outside of Thailand, its a recreation. Two entirely different mindsets, therefore two entirely different approaches to training.

Seriously, in Thailand fighters know if they don't train and fight, they don't eat. (yes, I realize this is an overly generalized statement) THAT is the incentive to train! Outside of Thailand, "commercial gimmicks" (as you put it) are a necessary part of martial arts. Without those gimmicks to dangle in front of their noses, why the hell would they put themselves through the rough and tumble training that MuayThai offers? They could take up ballroom dancing instead!

Whether you view it as a good thing or a bad thing, it is what it is.

[kuk sool won]

who cares, if what they teach works, then why complain?

[sportmuaythai]

My students who have earned their shorts in the past actually "like" having to earn them, it brings a whole new level of respect to the training for some of them. Remember, this is not Thailand!

Very well said, because if it were in Thailand, I'll bet these students would blush from snickers and jeers. BTW do you charge for testing? Also, are these coloured shorts more expensive than normal? It's my personal view that the trainer is not capable of making his training interesting and productive enough, so he has to resort to commercial gimmicks as incentive to retain his students .

[47MartialMan]

Great response

[Python]

I don't think having a "ranking' system or structure of some sort diminishes the art or makes it a watered down system, nor is it "wrong". There are many Muay Thai Champions and trainers here in the states who place a ranking system within their classes, and they are not "selling out" nor are they "changing" Muay Thai. While I have most recently taken out the "earning of shorts" with my student level one test, it is only because my fight team has grown and is in different cities and I am not able to always "test" a person before he or she fights, so they have team shorts to fight in. BUT, with that said here is why my first instructor required students to earn their shorts: (this is how i understand his reasoning)

He had the name of their club on the shorts on one leg or the other or on the waist band...there was a couple students who had taken his class and of course bought shorts on the internet right away. They took class for maybe 10 hours (only 10 hours of instruction). And then went off on their own claiming to teach Muay Thai and wearing his club logo or name. Well that makes the teacher look bad as well, and raises questions. Since then the students earn their first pair of shorts. I am not sure this story is completely accurate with times and such, but you get the idea anyway, right? I have also experienced this but put a stop to it immediately.

My students who have earned their shorts in the past actually "like" having to earn them, it brings a whole new level of respect to the training for some of them. Remember, this is not Thailand! BUT, that doesn't mean we are bastardizing the art. I guarantee I am not! Our training is top notch and right in line with the T.B.A. standards and guidelines.

Having the students "earn" their shorts in NO WAY means the Muay Thai being taught is wrong. If you really believe so, make a trip to Iowa and join in one of the classes and meet the students and notice the level of respect , discipline, and skill, and then make an educated analysis. My doors are always open and you are always welcome.

[Rickster]

I agree to this. But if you are scared away of the Thai method of traingin. Then thay dont belong there. thay can have speciall classes for these peaple.
But just the ide to do it this why and change its sounds in my mind like, "hey lets take Thailands national sport and do it the american way and let peaple think that there actuly training muay thai. and that its like this in Thailand that you have to eranr youre trunks and there are ranking in it"
And I cant go allong that Ide. It just sounds wrong.

As wrong as it may be, no martial art is immune to commercialism and politics.

BTW- what is IDE?

[WhiteTiger]

I really don't like the idea of people sticking with Muay Thai just because they might "rank up" soon. It's a good commercial incentive, that's true, but it's a wrong attitude in my opinion. Sadly, it might be necessary to be commerically successful. American Muay Thai schools that closely mimiced training in Thailand would be great of course, but I'm afraid it would scare away most people.

The thing is, modern day Muay Thai is very much a fighting sport and not "martial artsy." Have you ever heard of rankings for good ol' boxing? A more martial artsy version of Muay Thai would be Muay Boran or something, and I feel a ranking system would be more appropriate in that case.

I agree to this. But if you are scared away of the Thai method of traingin. Then thay dont belong there. thay can have speciall classes for these peaple.
But just the ide to do it this why and change its sounds in my mind like, "hey lets take Thailands national sport and do it the american way and let peaple think that there actuly training muay thai. and that its like this in Thailand that you have to eranr youre trunks and there are ranking in it"
And I cant go allong that Ide. It just sounds wrong.