Why bash TKD?

[Tom Yum]

First off this site is awesome!

Ok, now to the real question. Why is everybody bashing TKD? TKD has lost its quality controls in the public's eye. I agree that there are Mcdojo's out there that try to teach kids 'teenage mutant ninja turtle' taekwondo and promote them to black belt at age 9. As a result, people perceive this negatively. Also, most TKD schools teach their students an art which includes hyung (kata), controlled self defense and point sparring. They are learning a broad system without focus.

BJJ, MT, boxing, kali, JKD etc. seem to have a strong combat focus. Naturally there are boxers who have been training for a few months that could knock out a blackbelt in TKD in a ring-type match. However, I'm sure there are a few needles in the haystack of TKD schools that have a combat focus. On the bright side, TKD students can focus on developing their own attributes. Imagine a TKD student that can kick like Bill "Superfoot" Wallace!

Not all TKD techniques are obsolete (i.e. spear hand, knife hand, palm etc.). Targeted at vital areas, these strikes could put someone to the canvas. I saw a video of a police officer in Houston stop a pimp from beating a prostitute. The officer (Jay Lee?) was wearing plain clothes. The pimp was huge and ripped! He charged the officer and threw an overhand right. The officer slipped to the overhand and countered with a right knife hand to the base of the pimp's neck. The guy was out for 30 seconds and stumbled as he tried to get up. DId anyone else see this? It was on a talk show.

Its true some MA schools are in it for the money and are watered down, but their will be a few students of every style that will show awesome attributes in that style. Didn't Bruce Lee study with TKD Grandmaster Jhoon Rhee?

[kungfupanda]

Why is everybody bashing TKD? Because it truely sucks. Unless you're just in it for sport.

[crazyjoe380]

i've seen something simular but it wasn't a cop it was a karate expert and a black pimp was comin at em for something he said. the hooker was trying to hold him back but the pimp came at him. the karate expert chopped that fool and dropped his ass..

the karate expert looked at the camera and raised his hands like saying "ow well!"

[Cain]

important

Again I think it is important to differ between the McDojangs and the better shcools.. especially in the WTF (world taekwondo federation) you have a lot of sport-focus and less focus on selfdefence, but you _still_ have schools that focus on selfdefence and street-fighting. When I trained tkd, i had a master that always had this to say about anything _not_ selfdefence-related: "if i want games, I'll go play golf" and well, i think he is one of the more capable when it comes to defend himself.. he also had the answer : "go out, get the experience on the streets" when someone asked him about how to get real life experience in a trainingenviroment.. so TKD _can_ be good, very good! if you get the right teacher/school.. but today it is watered out im many schools, and it is hard to find someoen teaching real selfdefence...

[Tom Yum]

Crazyjoe, I did a basic search for the karate instructor. He studies a Korean style called Kuk Sool and is a 5th or 6th degree blackbelt. From what I read the style blends animal style nerve strikes, hapkido-like grappling and TKD style kicking.

Can anyone find an MPEG of this? Its shweeet!

[Khun Kao]

Its really odd that I often find myself defending TKD to people. I am *NOT* a fan of TKD, but I have been TAUGHT to respect it... the HARD WAY!

Seriously, I started training in Martial Arts in 1988-89. I started my training with Tang Soo Do, then moved onto Ninjitsu, then I discovered Muay Thai. Up until 1994, I had experience with TKD that most likely mirrored the experiences that most of you have had. A bunch of people wearing white pajamas throwing around little sloppy, flippy kicks that had nothing behind them.

However, my instructor was given the opportunity to teach out of a TKD school. This school was NO JOKE! Master Robert Owens was a former Army Sargeant, who learned TKD in Korea while still in the military. Because his school was literally located right outside of a military base, he had predominantly military families as students. He ran his school like Boot Camp! I was suddenly finding myself witnessing a TKD that I didn't know existed!

I had the opportunity to spar against some of his students. I will not mince words about this. The individual kicks were solid, but didn't particularly hurt. My Muay Thai training had conditioned me to take worse. However, it was often so difficult to land a shot against these guys that I have actually gone entire sparring matches without landing a single strike!

The few instances where this happened, my TKD sparring partner used his Side Kicks with dynamic footwork. He would dance around right outside of my longest reach, then would hit me with a Side Kick, then immediately move again. Any time I would try to close the gap to land my own shots, I would eat a fast Side Kick. No, they didn't particularly damage me, but they stopped me in my tracks.

I also have spoken with some Muay Thai instructors who are actually from Thailand. They agree that TKD is a good art, though they feel its use is limited. They all agree that the Side Kick is TKD's best weapon and that a good TKD'ist can hold a Thai boxer at bay with a smart fight strategy centered around dynamic footwork and side kicks.

Khun Kao

[Tom Yum]

I know exactly what you talk about - the front leg side kick. Its the foot jab of TKD. I believe the kick is thrown as a snap from the chambered position and at the milisecond before the impact, the hips are rotated. Its talked about in B. Lee's book "Tao of Jeet Kune Do". In the book, he also mentions the hook kick to the head, which is somewhat flashy but has power. Check out the video on the following page called TaeboKTFO. A guy delivers a hook kick in a point style tourney and knocks out Billy Blanks (before the days of Tae bo).

http://www.bullshido.us/dl_search.asp?page=3&order=DL%5Fid&search=&num=30

[Cain]

side-kicks

if you look at people like Tomaz Barada (my main example:P) the sidekick is his main weapon in both tkd and kickboxing! it is great to keep distance and to 'tease' but if done correct it can have a lot of power too.. that little guy 65kg's or so.. kicked me harder than most big guys ever did. And the sidekick is fast, when i trained tkd I did 67 hard sidekicks in 30 seconds (ofcourse, not HARDEST.. but pretty hard) and what i found to be one of the secrets is to throw the heel up first.. that may be stupid, but for me it worked.

[Lost Ronin]

Most people bash TKD due to the fact that in most schools money comes first, skill is something that you don't really need to have. I remember watching the news and seeing an entire family that was going to test for their blackbelts ( yeah, mom & dad and the three kids) the youngest kid was eight. When I was eight my karate master had me practicing basic techniques! His youngest blackbelt had been fifteen and he had studied with him since he was five! And I saw some footage of the family, honestly, the kids were doing a decent job, but the mother and the father... well, you get the picture. TKD is a pretty good style if it is taught properly, but even then most people focus on the kicks and seem to forget their punches. It depends on the training that they do.

[OctaviousBP]

An interesting fact

Just an interesting little tidbit of info... the Thai military trains in Tae Kwon Do.

David

[Khun Kao]

Actually, I know of some Thai instructors who also train in TKD. Master Toddy in Las Vegas is a TKD Blackbelt, and so is one of my currect trainers, Master Danny.

Khun Kao

[Koreso]

TKD

Well, its not TKD's fault that most schools just suck. I have had the fortune to work directly under a grandmaster in TKD and Dang Soo Do who has multitudes of experience in other martial arts and styles. In his curriculum, not only do we do the normal TKD kicking, but we also learn how to incorporate it with Hapkido techniques and Dang Soo Do hand attacks. He also had experience in ship pal gi, an old Kung Fu like Korean martial art. Anyways, under legitamate instructors, TKD is very powerful, especially when you incorpate it with a mix of other arts like grappling and punching. Don't knock it, its great if you get taught by real experienced and professional instructors.

The same with teaching forms. He teaches us actually what each move in forms does and how it is effective in whatever circumstance. I would always defend forms, since it helps beginners advance in form and technique. Though, I do not agree how many curriculums focus only on forms and not sparring, knowledge, discipline, and basic aptitude.

[Typhoon]

I cross train in tae kwon do with muy thai, to havea wide variety but the tae kwon that my master teaches ( same as the muy thai instructor) is pretty good we are allowed to do grapplign and take downs whule sparing which i find builds experince for an all aroudn unfighting unlike in muy thai wher taking to the ground is illigal, so I decided to cross train in both and it defenetly imrpoved my kickbxoign kicks and movements.

[Typhoon]

sorry about all the typos Iam ina hurry

[goatnipples2002]

The only thing I can say wrong about TKD is that the front kick is very very weak. I say this because you have to bring your knee up then kick with the lower half of your leg. It also telegraphs your attack, I love those kicks, atleast when people use them against me. Other than that I believe it's up to the school on the quality of the fighter.