punching power and iron x pressups?

[Daznz]

Hi all Great forum
Im interested to know your guys views on how much more punching power mastering iron cross pressups would bring?
Goatnipples i made a pair of iron crosses and yes i cant even get into the pressup postion hahaha im interested on your training process on mastering them did you start on you knees
doing the pressups or work on getting into the pressup postion etc.
Cheers DAZA

[retired]

Have you tryed pressup's on the raised bars (like the iron cross only they have legs) so it's much easier but you still have the same grip which can assist in your ultimate goal & you can go past the neutral point when down (if you have weak wrists you'll still struggle with these but it's better than jumping in the deep end) cuz those are real hard pressups.

[darrianation]

Yea those look pretty damn hard, but not nearly as hard as those wrist push ups retired was doing. Damn my wrists still hurt from trying those.

There's lots of way to build your wrists without going to these extremes. Wrist curls with weights-regular and reverse grip. I had problems with weak wrists I used weights. But if you like the iron cross stuff thats fine.

If you want to punch harder then pay attention and work on technique. It will go a lot further than building certain muscle groups (Not that muscle isnt important) just not the main thing when it comes to punching power.

The bar with handles that retired mentions is good. I used this in high school. Also push-ups on a physio ball works well Builds wrists and balance.

[Daznz]

Thanks for ya help guys ill give your ideas a try. yes i see the wrist pressups. We do these at kickboxing and im starting to make progress. But i think once you have mastered iron x pressups your wrists would be close to as strong as they could be.
Cheers for ya help again guys
DAZA

[retired]

Get a set of these bars & use them for your pressups.
Have the bars inline with your body for close pressup's (as in pic) & turn them 90' for wide pressups.
These bars are quite high though & enable you to go down past the level mark (owned by the local Wing-Chun club).

[retired]

Found this while surfing:

A Comparative Analysis of Myoelectric Activity Between Three Different Hand-Widths of
Press Up

Introduction
Press-up is a very common type of exercise in many recreational sports, and the hand positioning effects biomechanical efficiency or alters the load on specific muscles (Bartlett, 1996). These positions are comparable to bench press hand-grip width on the bar. Weightlifters need an optimal hand-width to ensure biomechanical efficiency to push maximum load. As for the novice recreational exerciser, the difficulty of the press ups may be overcome by adjusting width position of the hands. Two of the prime skeletal muscles, pectoralis major and triceps are found to substantially contribute to the motions of press-ups. McLaughlin (1985) found that wider grip involves the pectoralis more, and narrow grip involved the triceps. The contractile forces of the muscles are relative to the electrical activity within the muscles (Hamil & Knutzen, 1995).

A typical recording of electrical activity of the muscular contraction is the use of an electromyography (EMG). Action potentials of muscular activity are a result of motor unit recruitment, and the electrical impulses are measured in voltage. Skin-surface electrodes pick up the signals, and converting it via EMG into quantifiable data can obtain the measurements.

Madsen and McLaughlin (1984) used EMG to measure the effects of grip width in bench press, and found that expert lifters used wider grip than novices did. Clemon and Aron (1997) found that weightlifters using moderate grip width in bench press could lift significantly heavier load. However, these findings were contradicted by Elliot (1989), and stated that grip width was not an independent variable.


The present study's objectives were to examine the action potentials of the pectoralis major and the triceps, and to compare the myoelectrical activity between three different hand widths during press-ups.



Discussion
The main objectives of the present study were to investigate the myoelectrical activity in the pectoralis major and the triceps during press ups, also compare the effects of different hand-widths.

The results indicated that triceps had highest electrical activity during the narrow hand-width trials, and the pectoralis major's highest electrical activity was found during the wide hand-width trials. The experimenter noted during visual observation of the subjects performing the press ups, the narrow and wide hand-width appeared to be more strenuous. Noticeable shaking occurred among the subjects especially in the isometric phase of the press ups. This suggested that normal hand-width at 60cm was the least strenuous position, and therefore advantageous in pressing heavier load.

The findings support McLaughlin's (1985) findings that wide grip in bench press involves the pectoralis, and narrow grip involves the triceps. Also, supports Clemont and Aron (1997) argument that moderate grip width in bench press allows subjects to significantly lift heavier load. However, the present study dispute the findings of Elliot (1989) claiming that grip-width is not an independent variable in bench press.

The important consideration of hand-width position must be based on the objective of the effect of exercise. For example, a weightlifter objective is to find an optimal hand-width to lift heavier load but a bodybuilder or strength athlete may wish to elicit hypertrophy and not concerned with the amount of load lifted. Therefore, the optimal hand-width of the press ups is dependent on the objectives of the exerciser, and the method in achieving the desire results.

The methodology of the experiment was somewhat basic and extraneous variables such as elbow angles, shoulder angles and the angle of back extension were not considered. This meant that inconsistent motions affect the internal validity of the experiment. The speed of the press up motion was also inconsistent but errors were within a time period of one second. It would appear that goniometer should be introduced to measure the joint angles, an audio/visual metronome to maintain cadence, and a timer in synchronisation with the EMG and the motions.

Future investigation should implement more control, and conduct experiment on a larger population. Also, look at the inter-relationship of pectoralis and triceps in producing maximal lift or press.

The findings of the present study suggest that a beginner exerciser should initially adopt the normal hand-width (60cm), and a strength athlete should adopt various of widths depending on the desire effect. The wide hand-width works the pectoralis more, and the narrow hand-width works the triceps more. However, the weightlifter must consider the optimal hand-width in terms of motor recruitment as well as the displacement of the bar.

http://martialartinstitute.com/Index.htm

[Daznz]

Thanks Retired
Interesting read...... Thanks for putting those pics up ill make a pair or those. Your a top man around here.
Thanks again DAZA

[goatnipples2002]

I don't know what that dude showed in the picture was but you're better of do the push ups on your palms than those "hand supports". I made a pair of iron crosses and they rock. I like like super chalenging things so this was right up my alley. you will have more benefits from the iron crosses, but it is hard as **** to get down. It will take weeks of practice to do 1. Do pushups on the ironn crosses like girls do in schooland you should be more than ready for a few years of practice. If you need further help I might be able to find the website that turned me on to them.

[terry]

On the relationship between weight pressed and the width of the grip: It is my experience that you can lift heavier with a wide grip. I'm not sure about any quantifiable data on this, but here is the rule of thumb I use when working the bench. When you use a close grip (index finger just outside the knurling--bumpy stuff--on the bar) then you can bench X. When you use a regular grip (thumb distance from the knurling) then you can bench X+20 lbs. When you use a wide grip (2Xthumb distance from the knurling) then you bench X+50 lbs. The cost, however, is that a wide grip is also more difficult on your shoulders. Therefore you don't want to isolate on wide grip for too long.

I'm sure the same thing applies for pushups.

[retired]

Goatnipples2002

Nice to see you back again!!!!
How's the education/training going?

[Ripley]

Those push-up handles are OK, but I think you'll get faster improvements in strength from getting into your local gym and pressing a bar or performing dips. If gyms aren't an option try dipping between two chairs and press-ups on an incline (e.g. feet on a high chair or stairs). Even better, you could try a small child or light weight girlfriend to sit on your back when you do press-ups?
If you can't do one press up off the push-up handles, maybe start off with a book under each hand and work your way up.

[Ripley]

And if wrist strength is the problem (not your pecs and triceps) try using a winding device. To make one attach a rope to the centre of a rod of round wood or metal and tie a weight to the other end of the rope. To exercise simply hold either end of the rod and wrap/unwrap the rope - raising/lowering the weight as you go. It's like doing wrist curls but even more intensive.

[goatnipples2002]

Originally posted by retired
Goatnipples2002

Nice to see you back again!!!!
How's the education/training going?

Sup I got 2-- A-'s, 1-- b, 1-- D- I hate math.

I'm about to start my training again. Damn its hard once you stop.

keep it cool heeheehaahaa

[goatnipples2002]

I got be an ass 1 mo time

First off. The reason for this style of push up (IRON CROSS) isn't for pecs, triceps or strength in any part of your body except your wrist. Alot of you have it twisted and distorted, I will be your Yoda. You don't have to listen I don't give a **** but I've been in too many fights and places to listen to you repeat things you heard and don't know from first hand experience.

Okay let's start this class!
The winding theory is pretty weak at best. This exercise works the forearm muscles in a way that won't be 100% beneficial to your wrist when punching. It might be 50% effective which translates to half-assed. Yes the forearm muscle help stabilize your hand on impact be there are better exercises, Iron cross pushups

And the iron cross pushups aren't for strength in the pecs like regular pushups. Iron cross pushups force your support muscles to work in a different way. Punching calls for a different discipline. I can't explain all the scientific shit, but I can tell you to punch a heavy bag as hard as you can. If your wrist buckles that what iron cross pushups prevent.

Make some and you'll understand.

go here and click on iron crosses and you MIGHT comprehend

http://www.ironcrane.com/html/lessons.html

[Ripley]

Great web site - I book marked it.
After seeing those things I went straight to the garage and tried a few push-ups with my own improvised (a pair of hammers) iron crosses. Alrighty, it is very different to the sort of exercise you'll get with wrist curls and the winding exercise. And yes, it's a lot harder. I'll even admit that it's a great discipline to try for stopping your wrists buckling - having done a few my wrists hurt the same as if I'd made some bad contacts with the heavy bag. Do I just call you Yoda or Mr Yoda?