MT vs. SANSHOU

[retired]

sorry my mistake I answered his bollox

Id carry on as it seems more interesting & maybe with enough people he may listen (doubtfull mind).

[Toudiyama[NL]]

1)
I adress the forms of Ngo cho kun and you aswer is about the other style
I adress you having no real knowledge of Karate if you claim sanchin is the last kata from Nahate karate and you ignore it
You claim things without research or real knowledge, at least I try to find information about your styles and found that most knowledge about Ngo cho kun comes from one person: Alex Co and that he tells us that it is believed to be the roots of Karate, so not part of the style is used as an offshoot but the whole style is used to combine with Uchinadi to form Toudi (karate)
There is no proof for your claim that the okinawans were only taught the base of wu zu quan, you claim that the chinese wouldn't teach foreigners the whole deal, well the okinawans or less foreign than the philipiinos are to the chinese so in that case you will never learn what the okinawans have learned in their time

2)
Patrick McCarthy found after intensive research of old okinawan karate AND chinese gong fa ( one of the styles he researched being Wu zu quan AKA Ngo cho kun), that there are 36 Habitual Acts of violence
So your 200+ handtechniques are like saying a picture contains trillions of colors, way more information than is needed so a waste of space and time

you seem to need 200+ hand techniques, boxers ( and karateka) learn to use their limited arsanal in every posible situation so for every of the 6 or so handtechniques ( karate has more but that's beside the point) there are an infinite amount of application

And THAT is why they will beat you

the human body works in a specific way, that why there is only so many way to use it, centuries of research and developement leads to martial arts looking simular
now we can call every slight variation a seperate technique like you seem to do but why would we

techniques can be verticaly, horizontaly, diagonaly, circular, strait, frontal, back or sideways, inside or outside, for some techniques there is a difference for different levels ( low middle high) but for a lot it doesn't matter much
to me there is no difference between a diagonal strike to the neck with knifehand and a diagonal strike to the side of the head with a hammerfist, you call that different, I don't, it doesn't matter is I strike you with a reverse punch using the first two knuckles of the fist, the tips of the fingers, the palmheel, flatfist(hiraken), thumb or the outside of my wrist, appart from the hand the body moves the same

Oh another thing, Kata is a japanese term, I hope your teacher doesn't call it kata because then He is a fake

[sherwinc]

1)
I adress the forms of Ngo cho kun and you aswer is about the other style
I adress you having no real knowledge of Karate if you claim sanchin is the last kata from Nahate karate and you ignore it
You claim things without research or real knowledge, at least I try to find information about your styles and found that most knowledge about Ngo cho kun comes from one person: Alex Co and that he tells us that it is believed to be the roots of Karate, so not part of the style is used as an offshoot but the whole style is used to combine with Uchinadi to form Toudi (karate)
There is no proof for your claim that the okinawans were only taught the base of wu zu quan, you claim that the chinese wouldn't teach foreigners the whole deal, well the okinawans or less foreign than the philipiinos are to the chinese so in that case you will never learn what the okinawans have learned in their time

SanChin is not considered as a first kata of karate cause the first kata of karate is called "Kihon Kata from no.1 to 5 kata's"...... and i dont care whether SanChin is in the middle or the last portion of kata of karate, while in GoChoKun - SamChien is the first kata and you could not proceed to learn to the second kata if you could not perfect the SamChien Form....

1)
2)
Patrick McCarthy found after intensive research of old okinawan karate AND chinese gong fa ( one of the styles he researched being Wu zu quan AKA Ngo cho kun), that there are 36 Habitual Acts of violence
So your 200+ handtechniques are like saying a picture contains trillions of colors, way more information than is needed so a waste of space and time

you seem to need 200+ hand techniques, boxers ( and karateka) learn to use their limited arsanal in every posible situation so for every of the 6 or so handtechniques ( karate has more but that's beside the point) there are an infinite amount of application

And THAT is why they will beat you

the human body works in a specific way, that why there is only so many way to use it, centuries of research and developement leads to martial arts looking simular
now we can call every slight variation a seperate technique like you seem to do but why would we

i learn only 56 hand attacks of Chi Dian Bun

in every single hand attack there is 6-or-more applications each.....

so....

56(unique hand attack) x 6(applications each hand attack) = 336 hand attacks total

Note: in an English Alphabet.........
336 Hand Attacks of ChiDianBunKungFu = Alphabets like abcde (small letters)
4 Advanced Hand Attacks = Alphabets like ABCDE (all capital letters)
Insertion of LowKicks and Advanced Kick = Numbers like 12345
ChiDianBun Kun's (Forms or Sets) = Special Characters like !@*&%_-^
ChiDianBun's Way of Fights = Synonym's, Grammar, Past Tense, Adjectives, Verbs, etc.....

now, when these are all combined all together to form words, sentence, sentences to back to back conversation, the result is.....

ChiDianBun's ratio of hit unto opponent is 2:22 = Speak or Write using English Alphabets to conversations

1)

techniques can be verticaly, horizontaly, diagonaly, circular, strait, frontal, back or sideways, inside or outside, for some techniques there is a difference for different levels ( low middle high) but for a lot it doesn't matter much
to me there is no difference between a diagonal strike to the neck with knifehand and a diagonal strike to the side of the head with a hammerfist, you call that different, I don't, it doesn't matter is I strike you with a reverse punch using the first two knuckles of the fist, the tips of the fingers, the palmheel, flatfist(hiraken), thumb or the outside of my wrist, appart from the hand the body moves the same

it is truely our advantages if you continue to use your original non-kungfu martial arts hand/feet attacks cause we almost know your whole alphabets, since your alphabets is only an alphabets and cannot make it into words for only one reason.....

your fist is only just a fist, and nothing more.....

1)
Oh another thing, Kata is a japanese term, I hope your teacher doesn't call it kata because then He is a fake

Karate = Kata
KungFu = Kun and Chien
Tae Kwon Do = Poomse
English = Set Patterns

Note:
i called it Kata cause almost ignorant non-kungfu martial artist here used the term kata, so, in order for you to understand the things that so called "user friendly terms"

Note:
if i am fake, how do i know that you are stupid??????

convinced??????

[Toudiyama[NL]]

SanChin is not considered as a first kata of karate cause the first kata of karate is called "Kihon Kata from no.1 to 5 kata's"...... and i dont care whether SanChin is in the middle or the last portion of kata of karate, while in GoChoKun - SamChien is the first kata and you could not proceed to learn to the second kata if you could not perfect the SamChien Form....





i learn only 56 hand attacks of Chi Dian Bun

in every single hand attack there is 6-or-more applications each.....

so....

56(unique hand attack) x 6(applications each hand attack) = 336 hand attacks total

Note: in an English Alphabet.........
336 Hand Attacks of ChiDianBunKungFu = Alphabets like abcde (small letters)
4 Advanced Hand Attacks = Alphabets like ABCDE (all capital letters)
Insertion of LowKicks and Advanced Kick = Numbers like 12345
ChiDianBun Kun's (Forms or Sets) = Special Characters like !@*&%_-^
ChiDianBun's Way of Fights = Synonym's, Grammar, Past Tense, Adjectives, Verbs, etc.....

now, when these are all combined all together to form words, sentence, sentences to back to back conversation, the result is.....

ChiDianBun's ratio of hit unto opponent is 2:22 = Speak or Write using English Alphabets to conversations





it is truely our advantages if you continue to use your original non-kungfu martial arts hand/feet attacks cause we almost know your whole alphabets, since your alphabets is only an alphabets and cannot make it into words for only one reason.....

your fist is only just a fist, and nothing more.....





Karate = Kata
KungFu = Kun and Chien
Tae Kwon Do = Poomse
English = Set Patterns

Note:
i called it Kata cause almost ignorant non-kungfu martial artist here used the term kata, so, in order for you to understand the things that so called "user friendly terms"

Note:
if i am fake, how do i know that you are stupid??????

convinced??????

Ngo cho kun/Wu zu quan is the root of Goju and uechi ryu karate, uechi's first kata is Sanchin and so is it for th most Goju schools
Kihon 1-5 or Pinan 1-5 is Shorin lineage not Goju
Don't mix up facts to try and prove your point

the 36 HAPV were found after many years of research in China and Okinawa
You can have your 336 or whatever crazy number you want to put down but in a sense they all will come down to this 36 HA0PV
"Oh I punch with 1 finger, 2 figer, 4 finger, thumb, fist, flat fist, wrist, etc etc and therefore consider it a different hand technique" wel we don't, we call it the same technique with a different weapon

A fist is already used in 3 way by any beginner karateka ( white belt) so a fist is a fist?

I clasified our way to show you all techniques belong to one of these groups, it seems you think there are more groups to qualify well tell us some of your groups that wouldn't be part of any of the ones I mentioned

I use Kata when I speak about the forms of Okinawa and Japan I speak of forms for any other
BTW in japanese there are 2 ways of writing 1 is igata which is "mold" and that's what Kata never should be

As for your last derogatary (sp?) remark, you don't KNOW that I'm stupid, you think I'm stupid and that's your whole problem thinking isn't knowing
You think your art is superior but you don't know

You don't take the efford of researching if what you say is true, I do so who the heck is stuid here?
I could do a poll and probably will also get a few vote from people that don't know you but believe me you would win by a landslide

but don't take my word for it ask others who they find more stupid you are me

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Alphabets?

The chinese have a alphabet consisting of thousands of characters
the western alphabets are around 30 deepending on language

the best literature can only be chinese it is hundreds of times better than Shakespear

Or,

In a debate a chinese will win over a western person because he has more characters in his alphabet

Or maybe,

When at a bakershop you will get your bread sooner if you ask a combination of flour, milk and yeast, that has been kneeded(sp?) rested for a while and then baked at 180 degrees centigrade
instead of asking 1 bread

[sherwinc]

the 36 HAPV were found after many years of research in China and Okinawa
You can have your 336 or whatever crazy number you want to put down but in a sense they all will come down to this 36 HA0PV
"Oh I punch with 1 finger, 2 figer, 4 finger, thumb, fist, flat fist, wrist, etc etc and therefore consider it a different hand technique" wel we don't, we call it the same technique with a different weapon

A fist is already used in 3 way by any beginner karateka ( white belt) so a fist is a fist?

I clasified our way to show you all techniques belong to one of these groups, it seems you think there are more groups to qualify well tell us some of your groups that wouldn't be part of any of the ones I mentioned

Here are the examples that your Non-KungFu hand attacks (Fist is just a fist and nothing more) :

1. Comparing KungFu Opening Bow and Karate Opening Bow

a. Karate Bow is only just a stupid bow and no application to combat

b. KungFu Bow (left openpalm on top of right fist)
b1. One of the KungFu Bow's applications is to direct attack to opponents adams apple that whenever the opponent block your left palm - a hidden rightfist under your leftpalm directly hit the solar plexus with full force..... (another ILLUSION TECHNIQUES OF CHI DIAN BUN).......
b2. One of the KungFu Bow's applications is (using broadsword) while the righthand carring the broadsword to to slash the midsection of your opponent - your leftpalm serves as a support in order to add power for the big head broadsword..... (in a WEAPON CATEGORY OF CHI DIAN BUN)........
b3. One of the KungFu Bow's applications is a push to the chest of the opponent after closing the gap distance in order for the opponent to hit his back unto the sharp corner wall obstacles (another SCIENTIFIC TECHNIQUES OF CHI DIAN BUN).......
b4. One of the KungFu Bow's applications is to perform that in times of sqeezing place like inside of elevator where full passengers, in order for you to have some air space in your chest - perform that kungfu hand bow to avoid suffocate (this is good for women with low health).......
b5. One of the KungFu Bow's applications ......... now, its your turn to discover what other applications you can use with that KungFu Bow ( 6-or-more applications in a kungfu bowing hand)........
Note:
did you ever notice that when the kungfu executes a bow hands, why is it that the legs do the hop and executes a ground heel kick to a stance??????

Here's a tip..... in kungfu, in every movement, there is a 6-or-more applications, in every applications there's a purpose, in every purpose there's a reason...... HAW HAW HAW

2. Shall we compare Karate's Reverse Punch and ChiDianBun's First Hand Alphabet Attack called "Chiee" Punch????

a. Karate's Reverse Punch is only just a punch and nothing more

b. ChiDianBun's Chiee Punch is used to:
b1. Directly punch opponents solar plexus using Chiee Punch......
b2. Deflect opponents punch using Chiee Punch........
b3. Trap the opponent's Ax Kick using Chiee Punch.......
b4. Push the opponent's back unto sharp corner wall obstacles using Chiee Punch "whole forearm area"......
b5. Using Chiee Punch to defend against opponents elbow breaking.......
b6. Using Chiee Punch to hook opponents roundhouse kick.........
Note: i already show you 6 applications within ChiDianBun's First Hand Attack Alphabet called "Chiee Punch"

3. Shall we compare Karate's Uppercut Fist and ChiDianBun's Second Hand Alphabet Hand Attack called "Pian" Punch????????

a. Karate's Uppercut Punch is only just a punch and nothing more

b. ChiDianBun's Pian Punch is used to:
b1. enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this is used to be not exposed to the public..... sorry, its a secret...... but i already gave you an idea...... i repeat, 6-to-more applications each ChiDianBun unique hand alphabets.....

Note:
there's more, more, plenty of infos you didnt see yet.......

[retired]

sherwinc yet again you rant on with totall crap & bullshit, how can you say one persons punch is just a punch but when YOU throw it it becomes a lot more?????? how can you say this of other arts unless your an advanced student of each art because this stuff wouldnt just be taught to a beginner?

Who cares how many letters are in an alphabet? or how many words a each culture has?

At the end of the day like other people said a punch is a punch & nothing more, if it's parrying or deflecting something then it isnt a punch anymore but a block or parry or combined.

So you really think that with 100's of your pointy finger techniques you can easilly beat a western boxer, thaiboxer or any other art even on the street with no rules. HA HA HA

[sherwinc]

sherwinc yet again you rant on with totall crap & bullshit, how can you say one persons punch is just a punch but when YOU throw it it becomes a lot more?????? how can you say this of other arts unless your an advanced student of each art because this stuff wouldnt just be taught to a beginner?

Who cares how many letters are in an alphabet? or how many words a each culture has?

At the end of the day like other people said a punch is a punch & nothing more, if it's parrying or deflecting something then it isnt a punch anymore but a block or parry or combined.

So you really think that with 100's of your pointy finger techniques you can easilly beat a western boxer, thaiboxer or any other art even on the street with no rules. HA HA HA

So you see?????? for an overall total of 200+ alphabet hand attacks of Chi Dian Bun, i learned only 56 alphabets of it...... but the knowledge that i achieve, i am so very lucky Filipino who have a Chinese Instructor...... yet i am not contented, i wish to learn the remaining alphabets of ChiDianBun but our club now doesnt opperate - it is our mistake since of busy life of finding job in order to work.... only 15 students taught.....

Note:
With regards to ChiDianBun, my Chinese Instructor also teach me TaiChiChuan in five families, AngKa Kun, Some of NgoChoKun, Seventh-Star Praying Mantis, etc....

you know, its your bad problem cause you are a non-kungfu and the reason why you dont understand.....

and even thou you are a kungfu but your instructor teach you in a commercial way of teaching - its useless!!!!

how about fake kungfu schools?????

I ask you a nice question..... how much did you pay your money to your martial arts instructor for him to teach you?????????

so you may know the difference between Commercialize School, Non-Commercialized School, Fake School/Instructors (all solid kungfu)
HAW HAW HAW

[HuSanYan]

this has turned into a truly diabolical thread, sherwinc you are enough to single handedly (only 1 technique of) put off the Earths entire population from doing KungFu, "the many applications of the KungFu bow" ,holy shit forbid

[HuSanYan]

forgot to say, whatever you were on about "for getting some space in a crowded elevator", good grief, let me take you under my Worldly Wise Wing, instead of doing a ridiculous MA style bow in a crowded elevator, just grope the nearest female backside, have a good squeeze, and that will ensure you have some space to breathe in such a situation.......

Coming Soon------HuSanYans Multiple Bow Reviews

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Sorry still have this KevinG allergy, whenever I read the word Bow, I'm gone

Once more Sherwinc, YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT kARATE (or MT for that matter) SO STOP TALKING AS IF YOU DO

BAssai kata has the same kind of handposition, Jitte handposition during bow is the same and in Wanshu they are pulled to the side

Book-knowledge and a poor one at that
Let me guess, most of this anti karate information comes from your "chinese" instructor that isn't instructing at the moment
Chinese as in not liking the japanese

But it is now clear, to use your own argument, you don't understand the effectiveness of MT ( or karate, boxing etc) because you are Kung fu
Now if you were non kung fu you would understand
But you never will because you look down on other arts so will never do ANY training in it thus allowing you to understand

Selfproclaimed "Real" Kungfu people just can't understand it, they have been brainwashed to much, if they weren't, they would at least attend a few lessons in several non KF arts

And as a Trekky, I have to say that Selfproclaimed "Real" Kungfu like yours will never be a vulcam Martial Arts because it defies all logic in their claims

[darrianation]

sherwinc yet again you rant on with totall crap & bullshit, how can you say one persons punch is just a punch but when YOU throw it it becomes a lot more?????? how can you say this of other arts unless your an advanced student of each art because this stuff wouldnt just be taught to a beginner?

Who cares how many letters are in an alphabet? or how many words a each culture has?

At the end of the day like other people said a punch is a punch & nothing more, if it's parrying or deflecting something then it isnt a punch anymore but a block or parry or combined.

So you really think that with 100's of your pointy finger techniques you can easilly beat a western boxer, thaiboxer or any other art even on the street with no rules. HA HA HA

The only alphabets Sherwin can spell are:
1) Bong Tokes.
2) Hashish.
3) Heroin.
4) When can I have next dose?

Sherwin B. Dickhead is a classic case of head up the ass. He cannot see the daylight through his own colon.

Sherwin if your arguments had a shred of logic to them you would still be wrong but you wouldn’t be getting such a hard time. You make no sense and make outlandish claims that you are the only true recipient of the one and only true Kung Fu and all else is fake.

I think your caretakers at the Iloilo city home for the insane should take your computer privileges away.

[sherwinc]

But it is now clear, to use your own argument, you don't understand the effectiveness of MT ( or karate, boxing etc) because you are Kung fu
Now if you were non kung fu you would understand
But you never will because you look down on other arts so will never do ANY training in it thus allowing you to understand

i already understand that karate, boxing, kickboxing, muaythai, wrestling, taekwondo, are all HUMAN DUMMY.....

what i mean is, they did not emphasize "Defensive Moves"

blocking, deflecting, neutralizing is all not in their vocabulary..... they almost block the opponents oncoming punch and kick with their own head and body.... HAW HAW HAW.... that is what we called "Human Dummy" ...... blocking opponents punch with their head and body HAW HAW HAW.....

in KungFu..... a lot of forearm smashing against opponents forearm until the fist lands unto opponents body, then if lands, a sudden followup of rapid landings of fists...... "Defensive Moves is Emphasize"

[shootodog]

i already understand that karate, boxing, kickboxing, muaythai, wrestling, taekwondo, are all HUMAN DUMMY.....

what i mean is, they did not emphasize "Defensive Moves"

blocking, deflecting, neutralizing is all not in their vocabulary..... they almost block the opponents oncoming punch and kick with their own head and body.... HAW HAW HAW.... that is what we called "Human Dummy" ...... blocking opponents punch with their head and body HAW HAW HAW.....

in KungFu..... a lot of forearm smashing against opponents forearm until the fist lands unto opponents body, then if lands, a sudden followup of rapid landings of fists...... "Defensive Moves is Emphasize"

er, please tell me you've fought against any muay thai or sanshou fighter! please! if you wish, i could set it up with some of the guys at amtap or sanshou.

"ask the exsperienced, not the learned"

[sherwinc]

"ask the exsperienced, not the learned"

what, exsperienced in a commercialized way of fighting?????

it will only corrupted my non-commercialized way, it is like a virus to infect me....
no way

therefore......

"ask the non-commercialized exsperienced, not the learned"

convinced????