Bouncers-tips,tricks And Mistakes To Avoid

[HERQ454]

If you said "f**k the queen"some Aussies would think your thinking about having sex with a poof(homosexual).Ha Ha.A lot of us have Republican attitudes down here.You probably get more of a response from the poms(british).Oh by the way,Hope I haven't offended any one,not making any judgement calls.

[Sagacious Lu]

[*]Watch for signs of drugs, especially X, coke, meth, and other "speeds." Speed freaks tend to want to fight a lot more readily than potheads.

I've never been a bouncer but I do volunteer Harm Reduction work so I have A LOT of experience with drug users of all sorts. I actively seek out places where I know that I will encounter drug users so that I can (hopefully) get them to make wiser decisions by educating them without judging them. We do not encourage drug use, but we don't discourage it either, we just provide information. My attitude is that I can't stop anyone from using drugs, but I can reduce the damage that the drugs do by encouraging people to make informed decisions rather than use substances they don't understand. We work closely with the Atlanta needle exchange program. What we do it set up tables at clubs, concerts and underground parties (usually raves, but we've also worked at jam band shows, hip hop events and Burn festivals) where I pass out free condoms and ear plugs, provide information on all manner of recreational drugs and perform tests on ecstacy pills for free to see what chemicals they contain.
I agree with you 100% about watching out for users of coke, meth and other uppers, if a person is at all aggresive those substances will amplify that trait exponentially, especially when the user is coming down. Ecstacy is similar in some ways but it really is very different. In my experience X users (assuming it is only MDMA,MDA,MDME or the like that they have taken) are almost never violent WHILE THEY ARE HIGH. All bets are off after they come down of course. That's because although X is an analog for methamphetamine it also causes a massive release of seratonin that makes the user invincibly happy. They're usually too busy hugging and giving each other back rubs to be dangerous. If you've ever seen a "cuddle puddle" you know that they are highly unhygenic and more than a little ridiculous, but seldom if ever violent- the danger there is dehydration, heat exhaustion and STDs rather than weapons or fisticuffs. The exception to that is a heavy user that has depleted their seratonin to the point where the ecstacy they take (usually in huge doses due to having built up a high tolerance) is just a milder form of meth to them. The thing is X users like that are relatively rare because once a user progresses to that point they usually recognize that the X is no longer working and make the switch to meth.
X dealers are another story entirely- they frequently have hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of cash and/or product on their person, and it's always a safe bet that they're ready to defend it because they frequently owe that money to a bigger dealer than themselves. They can't exactly get out of that debt by declaring bankruptcy if something goes wrong. Of course from time to time a would-be hustler gets a passionate beat down over selling fake pills, but the attackers aren't on X when that happens.
I'll add to your list that IMHO users of hallucinogenics (LSD, psylocibin mushrooms, and assorted research chemicals like 5meoDIPT) are some of the most unpredictable drug users of them all. They aren't as likely to be violent as the uppers people but they still have to be watched closely because there's no telling what they might suddenly do at any given time.


*Edit* Two other things that can be extrememly dangerous, and that I would hope a bouncer would watch for are GHB(or GBL) and rohypnol aka roofies. Either G or roofies are sometimes used as "date rape" drugs because it's easy to slip them into a drink and they cause loss of memory/consciousness. G is particularly scary because it causes so many over doses and negative reactions with alcohol or other drugs. These drugs aren't likely to cause brawls, but they are very likely to cause rapes, deaths and trips to the hospital.

[whitebelt]

Invest in portable metal detectors (wands)and body armour. A lot of guys like to come back looking for you later on.

[bbbb]

Good stuff about the druggie's...all you can do is get away from 'em- UNLESS YOUR IN SECURITY.

MASSIVE PROBLEM (but I s'pose it's alway's been the same).

Thanx, to all the doormen, who keep us safe in the club's.

[Garland]

I don't bounce, but I do have a story...this was a pretty big thing a few years back. In SLC, we have a militant, anti-drug/fascist type gang, sXe the hard-liners of the straight-edge movement...who have killed quite a few people here in the past few years, although they seem to have faded from the news since about a year and a half ago...

Story goes, that at a local club, I think it was Bricks at the time, some straight edgers created a mock situation wherein 2 of them pretended to fight and when the bouncers came in to break it up, the rest of the group (who came in seperately, and these guys don't necessarily all dress the same, they do tend to wear black and have shaved heads, but not all the time.) who had been hanging back out of sight crowded in. 4 or 5 bouncers ended up in the E.R., and it was all over some personal beef with the bouncers.

Take from that what you will...

[Garland]

Ecstacy is similar in some ways but it really is very different. In my experience X users (assuming it is only MDMA,MDA,MDME or the like that they have taken) are almost never violent WHILE THEY ARE HIGH. All bets are off after they come down of course.

The thing is X users like that are relatively rare because once a user progresses to that point they usually recognize that the X is no longer
working and make the switch to meth.

X dealers are another story entirely- they frequently have hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of cash and/or product on their person, and it's always a safe bet that they're ready to defend it because they frequently owe that money to a bigger dealer than themselves.

5meoDIPT) are some of the most unpredictable drug users of them all.

Okay...I watched one of my pals kick the living **** out of two guys at an amusement park while he was rolling (he was 5'5'' and the guys were both over 6 feet) ...and I just KNOW that there is still a very high potentiality for violence while taking tabs...just leave it at that.

Two...no e-tard I know has switched from roll to tweak in that sequence. If you're rolling, chances are you also do coke. Coke will more likely lead to tweak. Tweakers are shit. I will gladly talk and associate with heroin addicts and coke heads...even crack heads...but as soon as somebody I know turns to tweak...I won't even show at their funeral, because they are less than shit.
MDMA and MDA are methanphetamines, sure...but they are nothing like tweak. Addiction is unheard of, unless the person is as fucking retarded as matbla...seriously, I'm more addicted to crunch wrap supremes which are...okay at best...than the biggest e-tard is to roll. Sure, it depletes your seratonin, but even amatuer ravers know taking 5-htp will fix that shit...and rolling twice in a week is simply...well...pointless anyway.

Three...yes, I've seen people get the shit beat out of them for trying to sell bunk (although not enough), and "misplacing" tabs. At the last rave I went to, some little asian kid got jumped by ten polo-tommy hillfigure bitches. I also remember the same thing happening to a friend of mine when I was with him...but it didn't go that way...thank god.

Four...5-MeO-Dipt is now illegal, as are all of the other Shulgin type drugs. Fuckin' foxy methoxy...shit...who the **** can even get ahold of that shit these days?!


Okay...here's some added advice for bouncers...don't be douche bags for no reason.

I've been grabbed by bouncers three times in my life. One time for going the wrong direction in a club into a VIP area (I didn't know where the hell I was going, but a simple excuse me would have illiceted a positive response from me) two was pretty much the same thing, and the third was at a rave where some homo bouncer told me I couldn't smoke a cigarette. I put the fucking cigarette out on my arm and asked if it made him happy before walking out of that fucking homo-pile.

I have bouncer and cop, and security guard pals...but so help me God, the next time a rent-a-cop or bouncer touches me without due cause, I will crush their fucking larnyx with a bottle on my way out of the club.

Remember civilians have rights too, and that includes the right to defend themselves. Turn-about is fair play.

AND ALWAYS HAVE FREE WATER TO GIVE AWAY. I watched an ex-pal go into fucking petite mal seizures after mixing drugs...yes his fault, but to attempt to charge 4 bucks for a bottle of water when somebody is suffering from heat sicknesses that shit is not just irresponsible, but is should get you fucking killed. If you let someone die like that, you deserve to suffer the same shit.

That's my 2 cents.

[fastandfurious]

Just wondering

Just wondering.. To be a bouncer what are the requierments... do you have to be a certain size? weight, height? Or do you just need to know how to fight? Or both?

[bbbb]

I knew a bloke...

,who was a joke- but they put him on the door because he had some presence(?!?). I'm going ,'O'mar...whatta ya doin' on the door ya' joke".

Well...lucky the bikie's weren't in during those "couple'a' day's"!!!!

That would seem to be an exception- or maybe he wasn't a hippee..my jacket(and my watch) did go missing about that time!!!? -

[bbbb]

what?

..is "tweak"?

[HERQ454]

Agreement

Fully suport Mike's point.Bouncers get a rap as being huge brain dead gorillas,but is that the only image drunk or druged patrons remember?Probably.Some patrons have an attitude that they can do anything they like.Would they have the same belief if going to a friends place or go to a party they have been invited too.No,you have respect for your friend or the people who invited you to that party.Yes your paying to get in and for the drinks,but it doesnt put you outside the laws of the land.

[HERQ454]

Garland,I know your talking out of anger but smash someones larnyx because they touched you without du course.Come on.

[Garland]

tweak is another name for meth. Utah happens to be the mecca of meth. We have the three M's here that we're known for, mormons, meth-labs, and mini-vans.

tabs are another name for roll, which is another name for any ecstasy pill, be it true MDMA, MDA, PMA, 2-CB etc etc etc...caffeine and DXM....or whatever it's pressed, if it's being presented as ecstasy...and not what it really is, viz. 2-CB or some sort of odd analog. Molly is "pure MDMA" sometimes it is too....the problem is, is that usually it's encased in a jell cap...which means you could easily put creatine in a gel-cap and sell it as Molly or pure MDMA...or you can toss weird shit like 5-MeO DMT or foxy, or STP and other wierd shit in there...rock and fucking roll. STP makes people insane...and it's the only MDMA drug I know of, besides PMA that has been actually linked to deaths. DXM has, but it's not a phenethylalamine/Alexander "Sasha" Shulgin drug.
MDMA can only kill you if you have a pre-existing heart condition, don't get enough water and succumb to some sort of heat sickness...or drink TOO much water and fail due to hyponitremia and/or cerebral edema. Or you mix shit, and the synergistic effect blows your mind...literally.

Dose or Cid or fry is acid.

[Garland]

Garland,I know your talking out of anger but smash someones larnyx because they touched you without du course.Come on.

I know. but if I had to take a swing, I'd have to make it count. Because within a few second I would be swarmed and stomped.

I dunno man...there's gotta be some sort of deterent for assholism in positions of power, right? I know quite a few stand up bouncers, but most of the others I see are fucking wanna be tough guy, psuedo meat heads that probably insitgate as much shit as they allegedly prevent, just because they have something to prove to themselves.

Example...at the end of the night, shortly after they turn on the lights at 2:00 mutha-fuckin AM (it's Utah) they tell everybody "GET THE **** OUT NOW!" in those words. If you're looking for your friend inside, and cordially tell them that, and ask them even if they can help, they start pushing you towards the door. That type of shit needs to be repremanded.

[Garland]

If you're showing up in a privately owned club (that's what bars and clubs are - private property) and openly violating the law, you're putting the owners at risk of losing their place, their license, and their livelihood.


You're making choices and accepting consequences when you choose to do that kind of stuff. You go into a place and drug yourself into a seizure, you're the idiot. You're the one who chose to risk dying, and you're the one who's now facing death because of your choices and stupidity.

You're willing to pay hundreds of dollars for coke and ex and god-knows-what else, but you can't fork over the $4 for water? Lay there and die, then! If a several hundred dollar drug habit is more important than a $4 bottle of water before you go into seizures, then you have no room to bitch when it kills you, and no one to blame but yourself.

Here's the problem with relating stories...people tend to read them with their own experiences in mind. You see things from the prespective of a vetran bouncer...I see things from the presepective of a kid who has had to deal with his idiot friends doing shit, and having to look for ways to prevent them from dying.

I do not use drugs. I drink, but not nearly as much as I used to...school and work takes up all my time. I still smoke cigarettes...which I've been gradually curbing, because I do it compulsively and mostly when I'm stressed. I'm now down to a pack every 4 days.

on to address your post......now that I've attempted to clear my character
and take care of any preconcieved notions one might make about me being around a certain type of people...I know I need to get new friends...but I don't, and luckily never, have had a thing for shitting my life away with drugs.
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1) I fully agree with the statement that the law inside the club is the same, if not more stringent then the law outside. I don't want the club to lose it's liquor license any more than anybody else, but people are liable to make honest mistakes and accidentily walk into areas that a) aren't corded off, b) when the bouncers don't make an attempt to talk to you and wait for you to walk by, and c) isn't labeled as anything special. This isn't something that needs to be dealt with physically. That fucking simple...it's battery.

2) Fully agreed, you do shit, you take a chance. The club or rave managemt are not accountable...unless the security at the rave are the people that peddled the shit to you...as I've seen happen umpteenth times.
It would be minimally decent to provide basic first aid and keep somebody going while an ambulance is en-route...but hey...far be it from me to propose to impose my ethics on hired muscle.

3)The incident I was referring to was an outdoor rave. I didn't have any money, my friends were out of money...they were all high, and I was freaking out because I had to hold up this 230 lb fat **** (my ex-buddy...becuase if I'd known the type of person he is then, I'd have dragged him farther from help.) who had collapsed due to heat exhaustion, right onto his 75lb girlfriend who looked like a fucking kickstand next to him.

I had to 1) find everyone of my pals. 2)try and beg for money from passing strangers 3) beg the security guys running the water booth for water, and explain the situation. NEXT TIME I'LL DRAG THE PERSON OVER AND LEAVE THEM PROPPED ON THE BOOTH. then they will be the other person's problem...negligant homicide.

and for the "before" you go into seizures stament...nobody THINKS or PREPARES for that! Especially not druggies...I mean...after all, they aren't known to be the most responsible people on the planet. I had, had money...but it was stolen from me gradually over the course of a week when I had been couch surfing, living with these types of people, trying to get away from drama at home.

[Sagacious Lu]

Okay...I watched one of my pals kick the living **** out of two guys at an amusement park while he was rolling (he was 5'5'' and the guys were both over 6 feet) ...and I just KNOW that there is still a very high potentiality for violence while taking tabs...just leave it at that.

I don't doubt this story happened, but did you test the pill? Do you actually know what he took or did someone just tell you it was X? Was he on anything else? Anything is possible but that isn't the norm.

Two...no e-tard I know has switched from roll to tweak in that sequence. If you're rolling, chances are you also do coke. Coke will more likely lead to tweak.

It happens differently for each user, my point is only that people that take X on a daily basis quickly switch to some other form of upper because they no longer feel the effects of ecstacy. That might be coke, meth or something else. You don't have to believe me but hard core users make that switch all the time.

Addiction is unheard of, unless the person is as fucking retarded as matbla...seriously, I'm more addicted to crunch wrap supremes which are...okay at best...than the biggest e-tard is to roll. Sure, it depletes your seratonin, but even amatuer ravers know taking 5-htp will fix that shit...and rolling twice in a week is simply...well...pointless anyway.

I agree with you that ecstacy is not physically addicting, but IMHO some people do develope a psychological dependence that can be just as bad. There are definately people that roll more often than twice a week, but if you've never encountered that behavior consider yourself lucky. 5-htp, if taken regularly over a long period of time will cause your seratonin receptors to build up, but not release, more seratonin. We're still learning about 5-htp, I know that it has been looked into as a way to treat both depression and the withdrawl symptoms that heavy coke addicts experience when they stop using- with mixed results. It looks like it might serve some useful purposes but so far the jury is out on exactly what they might be. One way or the other if you think just by popping some 5-htp you can avoid the negative effects of ecstacy use you're fooling yourself.

Four...5-MeO-Dipt is now illegal, as are all of the other Shulgin type drugs. Fuckin' foxy methoxy...shit...who the **** can even get ahold of that shit these days?!

One thing I refuse to do is tell people where to find drugs I had a guy ask me about it while I was volunteering just a few weeks ago; he said he was thinking of buying some. It's definately out there.

AND ALWAYS HAVE FREE WATER TO GIVE AWAY. I watched an ex-pal go into fucking petite mal seizures after mixing drugs...

I wish club owners were that compassionate but in the real world it isn't going to happen. When I volunteer I always keep a couple quart bottles of water behind the table in case I see someone like that. If you appreciate it than put a dollar or two in our donation jar if you ever see us

If you're showing up in a privately owned club (that's what bars and clubs are - private property) and openly violating the law, you're putting the owners at risk of losing their place, their license, and their livelihood. Your attitude that druggies have rights too is not accurate in this case. They have no rights - none - when it comes to breaking the law and putting a total stranger's entire livelihood on the chopping block. You want to do drugs? Do them at home and don't expect the least bit of sympathy or compassion from a club, its staff, or the owner if you decide to get yourself screwed up in their place. You're making choices and accepting consequences when you choose to do that kind of stuff. You go into a place and drug yourself into a seizure, you're the idiot. You're the one who chose to risk dying, and you're the one who's now facing death because of your choices and stupidity. You can get mad at the club all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the idiot who's seizing on the floor was the one who chose to sneak drugs into a privately owned place, break the law in purchasing them, break the law in taking them, and risk the freedom, financial standing, and livelihood of the owners of the place by getting screwed up on his property. When someone makes that many idiotic choices and then expects sympathy from a club owner or bouncer, they are full-time residents of Dreamland.

I have no argument for you Mike. Club owners are business men and they certainly have a right to run their business their own way and to protect their livlihood. It's the bouncer's job to protect the club's interests and I wouldn't expect you to do anything else. Also, I certainly don't advocate using drugs, I advocate education. I have a career, a house mortgage to pay and ambitions; I love practicing kung fu- I can't afford to be abusing my mind and body with a bunch of chemicals. Personally though, I've seen a lot of people get badly hurt over the years- some of whom were very close to me. I've seen more people than I could ever remember leave a club/concert/party in an ambulance. At the same time there isn't much that I love more than music and dancing. The work I do is my way of trying to make my community a better place. Sometimes teens and young adults do crazy things that they regret later- if they live long enough. By encouraging education I increase the chances that they will recover from their mistakes. I help prevent the seizures, the dehydration, the heat exhaustion and the over doses. You can look down on drug users if you want; drugs are definately a problem and I won't defend their use. I just think I have a better way to address that problem than most people in our society, and I'm not afraid to roll up my sleeves and practice what I preach. I know that not everyone agrees with my approach but then again they don't know the people I work with...