Anti-Grappling

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

Mo Smith beat alot of top guys using striking. And Conan wasn't the best of them. He could have been tired or whatever, but he still got knocked out. I could say that the strikers only get submitted because they're all tired. They got beat because they got beat.

Pete Williams caught Coleman with a similar kick. Was Coleman tired?

Whats your point with all this? What are you trying to prove?

And strikers(of any amount of skill, who have fought in any time era, against most kinds of grapplers) have gotten taken down right off the bat and put into a bad position then submitted. Not because they were tired, but because they lacked the grappling skill/ awareness. Plain and simple.

[DickHardman]

Speaking of gimmicks ... how's that working for ya, Dick?

trying to change the subject when asked about your own statement is a sign of desperation.

[Uke]

I believe Mo Smith trained intensively with Frank Shamrock in grappling fundamentals before the Conan fight.

If I'm not mistaken Mo Smith KO'd Conan with a kick to the head. It worked because Conan was tired and had probably never seen a kick come at his head at that velocity.

Mo Smith beat alot of top guys using striking. And Conan wasn't the best of them. He could have been tired or whatever, but he still got knocked out. I could say that the strikers only get submitted because they're all tired. They got beat because they got beat.

Pete Williams caught Coleman with a similar kick. Was Coleman tired?

[Uke]

again, i cant tell if you are being serious or not, bringing up the shredder and then asking if its a marketing ploy or not lol.....

Speaking of gimmicks ... how's that working for ya, Dick?

[DickHardman]

When BJJ guys try to close the distance and get caught in the Shredder, which is just a transitioning poison hand, is that a marketing ploy?

again, i cant tell if you are being serious or not, bringing up the shredder and then asking if its a marketing ploy or not lol.....

[Tom Yum]

I wonder ... when grapplers shoot in and get knocked out is that a marketing ploy? When BJJ guys try to close the distance and get caught in the Shredder, which is just a transitioning poison hand, is that a marketing ploy?

Damn, its been a while since anyone has mentioned the Shredder.

I wonder when Maurice Smith KO'd Conan, or when Pete Williams KO'd Mark Coleman with strikes, NOT grappling, was that a marketing ploy. Maybe when Renzo opened up Oleg Taktarov that was marketing too?

Because according to some here, the only way to fight a grappler is to be a grappler, which is stupidity.

But this is just another great topic.

I believe Mo Smith trained intensively with Frank Shamrock in grappling fundamentals before the Conan fight.

If I'm not mistaken Mo Smith KO'd Conan with a kick to the head. It worked because Conan was tired and had probably never seen a kick come at his head at that velocity.

[BoarSpear]

I wonder ... when grapplers shoot in and get knocked out is that a marketing ploy? When BJJ guys try to close the distance and get caught in the Shredder, which is just a transitioning poison hand, is that a marketing ploy? I wonder when Maurice Smith KO'd Conan, or when Pete Williams KO'd Mark Coleman with strikes, NOT grappling, was that a marketing ploy. Maybe when Renzo opened up Oleg Taktarov that was marketing too?

Because according to some here, the only way to fight a grappler is to be a grappler, which is stupidity.

But this is just another great topic.

[jubaji]

Because according to some here, the only way to fight a grappler is to be a grappler, which is stupidity.

No, the point is that the only way to grapple a grappler is to be a better grappler, not to fool yourself that you've 'figured it out' because you attended a one-day seminar and got a free T-shirt.

[jubaji]

So now all striking is "anti-grappling"? LOL

You seem to be a perfect sucker for the power of marketing.

LOL, what a joke.

[Uke]

I wonder ... when grapplers shoot in and get knocked out is that a marketing ploy? When BJJ guys try to close the distance and get caught in the Shredder, which is just a transitioning poison hand, is that a marketing ploy? I wonder when Maurice Smith KO'd Conan, or when Pete Williams KO'd Mark Coleman with strikes, NOT grappling, was that a marketing ploy. Maybe when Renzo opened up Oleg Taktarov that was marketing too?

Because according to some here, the only way to fight a grappler is to be a grappler, which is stupidity.

But this is just another great topic.

[traveller]

so true

true...true

[jubaji]

The fact remains though, there is very little that is new in the world of martial arts. Mostly it is just a different way of using the same techiniques.

Or cooking up some transparent marketing ploy to teach crappy half-ass grappling to naive kids and charge them a ton of $$ for it!

[traveller]

1st for some reason my post didn't show from earlier so here we go again
I'm new here and read this rather long thread with some interest as well as bewilderment. And I am obviously late on this thread as the last post was like 2 weeks ago, but here we go.
Anti-grappling is nothing new. The techniques which some are calling anti-grappling are just break aways, releases, punches and positioning tactics which have been around since well before UFC or any of our organized MMA events today.
The originator of the thread may be correct in stating that Gracie brought attention to a weakness in the strikers armor in todays sport, but to state it never existed before is foolish. It demonstrates a complete disregard for the history of the martial arts.
Saying that no one would shoot in or rush an armed oponent is another demonstration of ignorance about martial arts history.
Many of the tactics and techniques used in warfare throughout history were designed to rush under or around anopponents weapon and disarm the opponent or use the leverage of the weapon against the wielder by employing grappling techniques.
The Spartans trained in wrestling and punching along with their sword and shield technique. Why would they train to grapple with an opponent if they did not intend to use the moves against an armed foe.
Swordplay and full armored fighting manuals from the middle ages also demonstrate techniques which closely resemble the grapopling techniques we see today.
I am not taking a particular side here as it is really a matter of semantics and whether you view the subject solely as something that has taken place since modern MMA events began or if you look at the full history of all martial arts.
The fact remains though, there is very little that is new in the world of martial arts. Mostly it is just a different way of using the same techiniques.

[EmptyneSs]

heres the main problem with "antigrappling". most of the time, people who are attacked in real life are ambushed and taken by surprise. thugs, crackheads, robbers, murders dont usually come up to people and say hey, lets fight it out. they attack you when you least expect it. and thats the problem with anti grappling. grappling just sometimes happens, its a fact of life on the street. you arent always going to be able to prevent it. your just going to find yourself being overpowered by someone you dont know all of a sudden. and once thats starts happening, your antigrapple bs wont help you one bit. extensive knowledge and experience in grappling will.

and all the anti grappling techniques and strategies you mentioned like making space, getting to your feet, sprawling, etc its all basic grappling techniques. just cause you add a ballpoint pen or knife to it doesnt mean its an entire new concept or style.

my own jiu jitsu/judo instructor told us that the ultimate self defense move in bjj was posting on one hand and getting to your feet fast with your other hand up to protect your face.

and yes, anti grappling is something that emin boztep claims to have developed. its just a scam he made to keep his job after people started gravitating towards grappling and muay thai for empty handed training.

combatives and SD training arent the only ones that have "dirty/deadly" techniques either. bjj and muay thai both have them as well.

[Maxx]

I haven't read the entire post, but is any of this centered around Ving Tsun and their supposed Anti-Grappling program? I'm just curious... I've seen some clips of Emin Boztepe on youtube. I know that he was originally part of Dr. Leung Ting's group and that group supposedly developed some type of anti-grappling program.

I did some research on it and was not overly impressed. I mean, it might work against an untrained thug who tries to wrestle you to the ground but with a skilled individual... say a MMA fighter with a background in wrestling/grappling as well a greco-roman wrestling...no, I don't see the stuff working.