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Gunman Kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

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  • A Culture of Passivity
    "Protecting" our "children" at Virginia Tech.

    By Mark Steyn

    I haven’t weighed in yet on Virginia Tech — mainly because, in a saner world, it would not be the kind of incident one needed to have a partisan opinion on. But I was giving a couple of speeches in Minnesota yesterday and I was asked about it and found myself more and more disturbed by the tone of the coverage. I’m not sure I’m ready to go the full Derb but I think he’s closer to the reality of the situation than most. On Monday night, Geraldo was all over Fox News saying we have to accept that, in this horrible world we live in, our “children” need to be “protected.”

    Point one: They’re not “children.” The students at Virginia Tech were grown women and — if you’ll forgive the expression — men. They would be regarded as adults by any other society in the history of our planet. Granted, we live in a selectively infantilized culture where twentysomethings are “children” if they’re serving in the Third Infantry Division in Ramadi but grown-ups making rational choices if they drop to the broadloom in President Clinton’s Oval Office. Nonetheless, it’s deeply damaging to portray fit fully formed adults as children who need to be protected. We should be raising them to understand that there will be moments in life when you need to protect yourself — and, in a “horrible” world, there may come moments when you have to choose between protecting yourself or others. It is a poor reflection on us that, in those first critical seconds where one has to make a decision, only an elderly Holocaust survivor, Professor Librescu, understood instinctively the obligation to act.

    Point two: The cost of a “protected” society of eternal “children” is too high. Every December 6th, my own unmanned Dominion lowers its flags to half-mast and tries to saddle Canadian manhood in general with the blame for the “Montreal massacre,” the 14 female students of the Ecole Polytechnique murdered by Marc Lepine (born Gamil Gharbi, the son of an Algerian Muslim wife-beater, though you’d never know that from the press coverage). As I wrote up north a few years ago:

    Yet the defining image of contemporary Canadian maleness is not M Lepine/Gharbi but the professors and the men in that classroom, who, ordered to leave by the lone gunman, meekly did so, and abandoned their female classmates to their fate — an act of abdication that would have been unthinkable in almost any other culture throughout human history. The “men” stood outside in the corridor and, even as they heard the first shots, they did nothing. And, when it was over and Gharbi walked out of the room and past them, they still did nothing. Whatever its other defects, Canadian manhood does not suffer from an excess of testosterone.

    I have always believed America is different. Certainly on September 11th we understood. The only good news of the day came from the passengers who didn’t meekly follow the obsolescent 1970s hijack procedures but who used their wits and acted as free-born individuals. And a few months later as Richard Reid bent down and tried to light his shoe in that critical split-second even the French guys leapt up and pounded the bejasus out of him.

    We do our children a disservice to raise them to entrust all to officialdom’s security blanket. Geraldo-like “protection” is a delusion: when something goes awry — whether on a September morning flight out of Logan or on a peaceful college campus — the state won’t be there to protect you. You’ll be the fellow on the scene who has to make the decision. As my distinguished compatriot Kathy Shaidle says:

    When we say “we don’t know what we’d do under the same circumstances”, we make cowardice the default position.

    I’d prefer to say that the default position is a terrible enervating passivity. Murderous misfit loners are mercifully rare. But this awful corrosive passivity is far more pervasive, and, unlike the psycho killer, is an existential threat to a functioning society.

    — Mark Steyn, a National Review columnist, is author of America Alone.

    Comment


    • Our children are being raised in a world run by cowards with pencils. They are taught violence is NEVER the answers. When heroes stand up they end up being targeted by those cowards with pencils that could never do what they did.

      Sometimes kicking the bully in the balls is the right thing to do. Sometimes violence is the answer. If we gave more violence back to any criminal every time they offered it to us it wouldn’t be long before there wouldn’t be any predators seeking the meek as victims.

      It is because we are taught not to fight back,”you might get hurt, let the authorities deal with it” mentality is why we are where we are.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by treelizard View Post
        Here's a more complete list of people who fought back:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgini...cre#Resistance
        heres some of the ones that stood out the most.....


        "Student Zach Petkewicz barricaded the door of Room 205 with a large table, while Cho shot several times through the door. No one in that classroom was killed."

        this kid here saved his entire classroom. thats awesome.


        "Matthew Joseph La Porte, an Air Force ROTC student, is reported to have attempted to tackle Cho from behind but was fatally injured in the attempt."

        looks like this guy got pretty close to cho, but sadly he was stopped before he could take the gunman down.



        this event has completely turned me over to the pro gun side for good. we need guns to protect ourselves.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by darrianation View Post
          Our children are being raised in a world run by cowards with pencils. They are taught violence is NEVER the answers. When heroes stand up they end up being targeted by those cowards with pencils that could never do what they did.

          Sometimes kicking the bully in the balls is the right thing to do. Sometimes violence is the answer. If we gave more violence back to any criminal every time they offered it to us it wouldn’t be long before there wouldn’t be any predators seeking the meek as victims.

          It is because we are taught not to fight back,”you might get hurt, let the authorities deal with it” mentality is why we are where we are.
          Good points, Darrian and you are correct in the first paragraph. This makes me think outside of the bounds of our own current culture.

          In Asian countries, sometimes there is no need to call the police because communities police themselves. In some Asian countires, thugs/bullies can get beaten, sometimes to death if they are severly in the "wrong."

          The cost of such a system?

          Financially nothing; but people will want to delve into your life, read your mail and want to get to know who you really are. They want to see that you are respectful, genuinely play well with others and "lead by example" by taking care of younger siblings/friends etc.

          Since most East Asian societies are Confuscian and emphasize the elders, you might have a few surrogate fathers (could be an uncle, much older cousin, dad's friend etc.) in addition to your own whom will advise you when your parents aren't around, act as confidant and keep an eye out for you.

          The same could be said of Indian and other South Asian societies as well, as I've been told.

          Such systems work because punishment by law is much more severe than punishment by one's own family/friends.

          Take the case of Micheal Fang in Singapore. He spray painted graffiti on a bridge - probably a misdemeanor here. As punishment, he got 5 lashings from a bamboo cane (I think his original punishment was 12). 6 lashes break the skin.

          Bullying still happens in these societies, but I'd say that bullies are less suprised at karma, I guess. At the same time, when its not clear whom is at fault, everyone involved gets punished.
          Last edited by Tom Yum; 04-25-2007, 08:58 PM.

          Comment


          • Police do not have the legal duty to protect individuals or even guarantee the safety of individuals. There are a lot of precedents for this like Warren v. District of Columbia, Riss vs. City of New York, Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department.

            Even if they did, the process is often slow and easily overwhelmed and cannot be depended on. I had to call 911 yesterday, or maybe it was two days ago, on a domestic violence situation. It took about a minute and a half just to get the dispatcher on the line; the phone kept ringing. Since I work on a switchboard I can understand why.

            They just found it took this !@#$ 9 minutes to do all the shooting. It took the cops five minutes to unchain the door. A SWAT team would have done it in one (all this according to an article I just read), but ever since Columbine they don't wait for SWAT teams to show up to try to move in.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mike Brewer
              I wish that Americans would recognize that even the police have no obligation to protect us from assailants. The responsibility (and the right) of self-defense lies with each of us. That may be a hard pill to swallow for some, but it's no less true. No one will ever take our individual safety more seriously than we do ourselves. Trying to hide those rights and responsibilities under a blanket of idiotic and idealistic pacifist, non-violent philosophies is irresponsible to any culture or individual that places serious value on human life.
              I fully support the Second Amendment, Mike.

              I would prefer non-violent responses to some situations, because you can save yourself from hassle. You don't have to break someone's arm/leg or knock them out over BS. Take the case of Alex Gong; someone wrecked his car and he got shot and died trying to harass the guy. I think he would have been better served trying to get the license plate of the car and filing a police report.

              When someone's trying to jack you, that's a different story.
              Last edited by Tom Yum; 04-27-2007, 01:42 AM.

              Comment


              • Get R Done...

                Originally posted by DickHardman View Post
                ....this event has completely turned me over to the pro gun side for good. we need guns to protect ourselves.
                It's been said before but carrying a gun (or a knife) on campus is a felony. School policy is clear on this. ANYONE with a weapon is considered a threat to security.



                Another note of caution; Just owning a firearm will not guarantee your safety or survival.

                There is no substitute for training...

                Comment


                • Tanto: Another note of caution; Just owning a firearm will not guarantee your safety or survival.
                  Jeff cooper once said "Owning a gun makes you no more a gunfighter than owning a Guitar makes you a musician."

                  I think many matters can be solved without violence, some that should, and some that can’t.

                  I am not talking about folks who are involved in criminal enterprise solving their problems with violence i.e. a drug dealer violently dealing with a competitor who has moved on to his turf, The guy who blames society for their problems and lashes out, etc. Law abiding citizens do not draw and shoot someone over a parking spot. You don’t club your neighbor’s kneecaps because his hedge runs over your fence into your yard (although you may wish too). I am not talking about lawlessness and recklessness. I am talking about someone who offers you violence, offering him even more violence in return for his troubles.

                  Although, in reality as much as the weenie libtards who like an ostrich burry their head in the sand when it comes to the realities of violence would have you believe otherwise, violence should begat violence.

                  Why should you give a rat’s ass about a low-life-predator-thug who wishes you or a loved one ill will and acts on it? We shouldn’t cuddle the predator and as far as I am concerned at that moment he offers violence he gives up all his rights. It is a myth that you should only offer “equal” force or only the force “necessary” since the winner of the fight will most likely be the guy who starts higher and faster on the use-of-force latter. You begin one second to slow and you loose or one rung to low and you loose. In a violent confrontation losing can mean the ICU, Permanent disability, or the morgue. So besides the principle of the matter it also makes good tactical sense to give back more violence than originally offered.

                  The pencil necks that sit behind desks with their fancy law and social policy degrees and pass judgment would have you be submissive and comply and not fight back especially with proportional armament which is a myth anyway. Doing anything less only creates more victims and you shouldn’t allow yourself to be a victim, just don’t do it. You shouldn’t go about dishing out random or unprovoked violence but when a predator comes looking for a tasty meal you make him the meal.

                  Unfortunately there are some folks who are destined to be that bipedal cheeseburger for the predator snack-pack looking for a tasty treat. Don’t be one of them.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by darrianation View Post
                    Jeff cooper once said "Owning a gun makes you no more a gunfighter than owning a Guitar makes you a musician."

                    .....

                    Yeah, THAT!!

                    LOL

                    I'm reminded of the video clip on World's Most Extreme Video or COPS stuff. The Jewlery store owner who drew on a bad guy but still had the safety on...

                    OOPS!!! He was wounded by five rounds for his error...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tant01 View Post
                      Yeah, THAT!!

                      LOL

                      I'm reminded of the video clip on World's Most Extreme Video or COPS stuff. The Jewlery store owner who drew on a bad guy but still had the safety on...

                      OOPS!!! He was wounded by five rounds for his error...
                      Actually the correct quote is: "Owning a gun makes you no more armed than owning a Guitar makes you a musician."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tant01 View Post
                        Yeah, THAT!!

                        LOL

                        I'm reminded of the video clip on World's Most Extreme Video or COPS stuff. The Jewlery store owner who drew on a bad guy but still had the safety on...

                        OOPS!!! He was wounded by five rounds for his error...
                        Speaking of jewelry store owners who pack, I am still in awe of Lance Thomas's story, his pistol skills and his ability to attack while ambushed.

                        Comment


                        • How many times did what's his name have to reload? Did he do a tactical reload or a speed reload or just a regular reload? I'm just wondering... was talking about this whole thing with some martial artists and we were trying to figure out how many people may have heard him outside their room reloading... which would be as good a time as any to try to take some sort of action.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by treelizard View Post
                            How many times did what's his name have to reload? ....

                            That's a good question. It depends on how many clips he had ready to go. I'm sure he had to stop at least once to reload the clips. Changing out the empty clip for fresh one only takes a couple seconds but putting fresh ammo into a clip takes much longer.

                            There were missed opportunities to attack the shooter but I don't fault the victims for failing to engage during the moments it took him to reload.

                            Comment


                            • Well some things to chew on:

                              Reportedly an Air Force ROTC student that was killed was attempting to tackle the shooter from behind.

                              Also, other accounts said the shooter was simply dropping his clips to reload, and reloading like someone who'd practiced it many times. I'm sure we've all seen the clip of the guy reloadng his weapon in about half a second.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bigred389 View Post

                                Also, other accounts said the shooter was simply dropping his clips to reload, and reloading like someone who'd practiced it many times. I'm sure we've all seen the clip of the guy reloadng his weapon in about half a second.


                                student says it took him 1-2 seconds to reload and keep firing.

                                Comment

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