another school shooting

[DonKey]

"On Combat" by Grossman addresses this issue a bit, I just finished reading this book and it's a great read for anyone who takes their safety seriously.

[Ghost]

Now, if you want to fix the schools just take a look at our system of HIGHER education, which is by far the best in the world. Find out what differences exist between the two 'systems' and you'll have an idea of what might very likely work.

Unfortunately, it would be very unlikely to be politically acceptable to a large portion of the country for reasons good and ill...

the thing with higher education is that your best unis in the states have limited places so they will always get the cream. And we know there are still plenty of normal and also excellent kids coming up through the system.

It would be interesting to examine, school and social conditions in a period before these school shootings really got started.

Although the schools arent involved now i think they could be and should be due to the amount of time children spend there, they must be formative in the childs behaviour. I would say parenting is the biggest factor.

I understand your point on not telling teachers how it is when we dont do their job. but we are talking about government policies on schools responsibilities. i dont expect individual teachers to try and change this now.
What i think should happen is that the education system should be reformed and that discipline and respect are added in as well as some understanding.
Give teachers powers to enforce discipline and powers to do their jobs the way they need to.
Judging by the UK system, which probably isnt miles apart from the US one, teachers time is spent chasing performance figures that arent attainable because they cant enforce discipline and they cant do anything except stand there and teach.
We have a system where teachers can barely even defend themselves when attacked.
I beleive if you took the next generation into school at the age of 4 and from day 1 started teaching in a way that demanded respect but also was very careful and compassionate about childrens needs then you could go a long way to addressing the failings of parents.
this new generations childrens would likely be better parents as well. in my opinion.

[treelizard]

I have a mentor whose father retired as an assistant superintendent, and he said he saw education change when women started entering the workforce, so that tells you a lot about how integral of a role parents play.

After a week of substitute teachers so we could get some much-needed training in core curriculum competencies, I returned to a classroom full of zoo animals who were throwing around these humoungous pieces of wadded up paper in class today. I marched every one of the worst culprits (there were six of them) outside so they could call home on my cell phone and explain their behavior. They all came back in the room with shoulders slunked saying things like "my dad said he'll deal with me later" and "I'm grounded for a week." Calling home is like a secret weapon; the one consistent thing I see with students who end up in trouble with the law or in huge trouble with the school is that their parents are either absent or are enablers. I'm not sure what amount of support would help them turn things around if they don't really feel like it.

As far as what teachers should be/are held accountable for, it is different in every state. In mine, it is this:


Standard 1: The teacher designs and plans instruction that develops students’ abilities to meet state academic standards and the district’s
assessment plan.
The performance assessment shall measure the extent to which the
teacher’s planning:
1. Focuses instruction on Arizona’s academic standards
2. Focuses instruction on the school’s and district’s academic standards
3. Aligns curriculum with the student assessments
4. Addresses any physical, mental, social, cultural, and community differences
among learners
5. Addresses prior knowledge of individual and group performance
6. Indicates short and long term curriculum goals
7. Includes appropriate use of a variety of methods, materials, and resources
8. Includes learning experiences that are developmentally appropriate for learners
9. Includes learning experiences that address a variety of cognitive levels
10.Includes learning experiences that are appropriate for curriculum goals
11.Includes learning experiences that are based upon principles of effective
instruction
12.Includes learning experiences that accurately represent content
13.Incorporates appropriate assessment of student progress

Standard 2: The teacher creates and maintains a learning climate that supports the development of students’ abilities to meet Arizona’s academic
standards.
The performance assessment shall measure the extent to which the
teacher:
1. Establishes and maintains standards of mutual respect
2. Displays effective classroom management
3. Encourages the student to demonstrate self-discipline and responsibility to self and others
4. Respects the individual differences among learners
5. Facilitates people working productively and cooperatively with each other
6. Provides a motivating learning environment
7. Promotes appropriate classroom participation
8. Listens thoughtfully and responsively
9. Organizes materials, equipment, and other resources appropriately
10.Applies to daily practice the ethics of the profession

Standard 3: The teacher implements and manages instruction that develops
students’ abilities to meet Arizona’s academic standards
The performance assessment shall measure the extent to which the
teacher:
1. Appropriately implements a teacher-designed lesson plan
2. Communicates to students specific standards and high expectations for learning
3. Links learning with students’ prior knowledge, experiences, and backgrounds
4. Models the skills, concepts, attributes, or thinking processes to be learned
5. Demonstrates effective written and oral communication
6. Uses appropriate language to communicate with learners clearly and accurately
7. Uses strategies that are appropriate to students’ developmental levels
8. Incorporates strategies which address the diverse needs of learners, and
demonstrates multicultural sensitivity
9. Encourages critical thinking
10.Connects lesson content to real life situations when appropriate
11.Uses technology and a variety of instructional resources appropriately
12.Uses a variety of effective teaching strategies to engage students actively in learning
13.Maximizes the amount of class time students are engaged in learning which
results in a high level of success for students
14.Provides opportunities for students to use and practice what is learned
15.Adjusts instruction based on feedback from students

Standard 4: The teacher assesses learning and communicates results to
students, parents and other professionals with respect to students’
abilities to meet Arizona’s academic standards.
The performance assessment shall measure the extent to which the
teacher:
1. Promotes student self-assessment
2. Uses a variety of appropriate formal and informal assessments aligned with
instruction
3. Maintains records of student work and performance and uses them to guide
instructional decisions
4. Offers students and parents appropriate feedback on progress toward learning expectations
5. Maintains privacy of student records and performance

Standard 5: The teacher collaborates with colleagues, parents, the community and other agencies to design, implement, and support learning
programs that develop students’ abilities to meet Arizona’s academic
standards and transition from school to work or post-secondary
education
The performance assessment shall measure the extent to which the
teacher:
1. Works with parents to enhance student learning at home and school
2. Collaborates with other professionals and agencies to improve the overall
learning environment for students
3. Accesses community resources and services to foster student learning
4. Demonstrates productive leadership and team membership skills that facilitate
the development of mutually beneficial goals
5. Collaborates with colleagues to achieve school and district goals

Standard 6: The teacher reviews and evaluates his or her overall performance and implements a professional development plan
The performance assessment shall measure the extent to which the
teacher:
1. Reviews his or her practices and evaluates the influences of his or her practices on student growth and learning
2. Designs and continually adapts a professional development plan for improving instruction and student learning
3. Engages in activities that implement the professional development plan
4. Uses employer’s documentation of his or her performance to develop a
professional development plan
5. Pursues professional activities to support development as a learner and a
teacher

Standard 7: The teacher has general academic knowledge as demonstrated by the attainment of a bachelor’s degree. The teacher also has specific
academic knowledge in his or her subject area or areas sufficient to
develop student knowledge and performance to meet Arizona
academic standards
The subject knowledge assessment shall measure the extent to which the
teacher has knowledge of:
1. Skills and concepts related to the subject area
a. At the elementary level, the teacher demonstrates knowledge of
language arts and reading, math, science, social studies, and fine arts.
b. At the secondary level, the teacher demonstrates knowledge of the
subject area or areas he or she is being certified to teach.
2. Major facts and assumptions that are central to the discipline
3. Debates and the processes of inquiry that are central to the discipline
4. Integration of disciplinary knowledge with other subject areas
5. Connections between knowledge of the subject area and real life situations at the level of the students being taught

Standard 8: The teacher demonstrates current professional knowledge sufficient to effectively design and plan instruction, implement and manage
instruction, create and maintain an appropriate learning
environment, and assess student learning
The professional knowledge assessment shall measure the extent to
which the teacher has knowledge of:
1. A variety of methods for teaching language arts and reading, math, science,
social studies, and fine arts at the elementary level or a variety of methods for
teaching reading and the subject area or areas in which the teacher is seeking
certification at the secondary level
2. Interdisciplinary learning experiences that integrate knowledge, skills, and
methods of inquiry from several subject areas
3. Principles and techniques associated with various instructional strategies
4. Learning theories, subject matter, curriculum development, and student
development and how to use this knowledge in planning instruction to meet
curriculum goals
5. Methods for recognizing and accommodating exceptional children
6. Influences of individual development, experiences, talents, prior learning,
language, culture, gender, family, and community on student learning
7. Principles of human motivation and behavior and their implications for managing
the classroom and organizing individual and group work
8. Effective evaluation of curriculum materials and resources for accuracy,
comprehensiveness, and usefulness for representing particular ideas and
concepts
9. The characteristics, uses, advantages, and limitations of different types of
assessments for evaluating how students learn, determining what they know and
are able to do, and identifying what experiences will support their further growth
and development
10.Measurement theory, interpretation of test results, and assessment-related
issues, such as validity, reliability, bias, and scoring
11.Services and resources to meet the needs of exceptional children and how to
access the services and resources
12.Schools as organizations within the larger community context and the operations
of the relevant aspects of the educational system
13.Laws and ethics related to student, parent, and teacher rights and responsibilities

[Ghost]

oh man thats huge, would it not be easier to have a mission statement kind of thing. treelizard that sounds really good the way you dealt with those kids. i assume you only get them for one year? and then they get passed on.
You seem to have a reasonable level of discipline for your students, are other teacher using these same techniques or are some, or none?

Do you see improvement in your students behaviour over the course of the year with you in your class?

That list is too long and imo is part of the problem. Id rather see a mission statement and then teachers be given intruction on what expected of them and then have their performance reviewed so certain levels of performance and discipline are maintained. would that make more sense?

[treelizard]

I've only been teaching for just over one quarter and class management is my biggest problem. Their behavior is improving but isn't nearly where I want it to be. It is frustrating to spend six hours putting together really kick ass lesson plans which get lost on my kids because they are too noisy or aren't listening. It is even more frustrating when one class goes great and another doesn't with the exact same plans. I want ALL of my students engaged in everything I am teaching at the same time.

Although my data indicates that there is huge improvement, there are a ton of really fun things that I can't do with some (most) of my classes because of their behavior. For example, today we were working on categorizing and classification because their paragraph organization isn't there. So I had students get in small groups and brainstorm every single thing they could think of on a topic. Then we put those things in categories. We did "music" as a class and the categories were "types of music" and "instruments" and "places music is played," etc. Then at the end of class we wrote paragraphs on just one of the topic. If they can get their entire paragraph to be about just one thing, that would be a HUGE improvement in their drive-by writing.

But I digress! My 5th period class is way behind because it takes me tons of time to get them settled. It is my biggest class (31 students). 6th/7th period class got crayons so they could circle different categories with colors, but my 3rd/4th period block is not yet able to use crayons without them ending up in the ceiling, in pieces on the floor and lobbed across the room nonstop for the entire class period. So they didn't get crayons. I also have a lot of really fun educational games that I can't use in class because my transitions are so noisy and chaotic that I need to keep everyone seated the entire class period. I spend over half of the class trying to get people to stay in their seats. I bought these switch guards because people would turn off the lights and push over desks, throw things, etc.. It's easy to handle when it's just one or two kids, but it's harder to manage the whole class. I am improving because 90% of the time I can tell who is doing what, but it took a long time to get there and like I said my class is still poorly managed. I read a lot of Marzano and spend a ton of time working on this. Some of the strategies my teaching coach has given me have seemed absolutely nuts, but are really effective. So yeah, I spend a lot of time just trying to get students seated and on task and not pushing or throwing things.

[Ghost]

That was a great way to handle it! Kudos!

I couldn't help but review Standard #2 several times. It looks on the surface like someone is trying to define the same things we are here. It is also generalized and vague enough so as to be nearly impossible to truly evaluate in any quantifiable sense. Maybe that's the rub.

I also feel for you in terms of your classes not getting the full benefits of great lesson plans due to their behavior. Could it be that some earlier instillment of discipline and respect, say at the early Elementary school level, might make a difference by the time they get to you? Once again, I think we need to be looking at overall solutions, and not just what one teacher in one classroom can do. Kids are in school for 12 years or so. Makes sense to start with a consistent message right from the giddyup, at least in terms of respect and discipline.

yeah i think it comes from lack of discipline of the other teachers on the way up, i cant help but feel treelizard is basically doing all the right things but is being let down by some of the other teachers, though im sure others try hard as she does as well.

I would like to see morning registration start with forming up and some marching and discipline, sounds harsh but i think it works well for high school and up, primary school probably needs all teachers to be forced to demand certain levels of discipline and respect across the board.
I think the key is consistency. the whole school must have the same approach so you dont have 5 soft teachers 1 hardcore and 4 in the middle for instance.

[treelizard]

It may have been a good way to handle it, but since these issues keep coming up repeatedly and have since I started teaching, I can't say I'm doing everything right or am even close to it. I'm probably doing about a hundred things wrong and I've identified about a dozen of them and am trying to work on just one a week. There are whole volumes of books of research from each angle. And since there are so many strands and potential areas of development that would take even the best teacher years or decades to master, even the most dedicated, hard-working and compassionate teachers could be on varying levels of progress in each area. I know that I'm constantly trying to figure out what ONE thing I could work on for the next day and I focus just as much on lack of engagement as I do on discipline problems.

Between planning lessons, contacting parents, developing a consistent classroom management setup, trying to determine how to differentiate instruction, trying to teach to different learning styles, trying to figure out how to deal with our new paper rationing system, trying to cater to English language learners, trying to determine where everyone is at on a given performance objective without assessing them to death, trying to figure out how to group students for projects, juggling resources, etc. it is just one area of concern for me. There are only so many hours in the day, I am already taxed out from working too much, and in the meantime I'm trying to keep myself strong and healthy (physically and spiritually) so I can be the shining example these kids desperately need. Meanwhile I'm about to start working another job so I can buy things like paper and supplies (the district only provides so much and it ain't enough), I train once a week if I'm lucky, and I see my friends and boyfriends once or twice a week if I'm lucky. Add eating, sleeping and keeping my house organized enough to work in and, well, let's just say I'm not going to beat myself up about it too much when things fall through the cracks as they inevitably will.

I agree that there's a lot that happened to these kids on the way there; I told one of the instructional support guys I work with that I don't feel that the behavioral problems could be the simple result of a bad lesson plan or bad delivery; there's a lot that it took to get them there. He told me not to spend any time thinking about that since they're the kids I have.

Standard 2 is about creating a positive learning environment so that students can learn. It is about making sure directions are given clearly, high standards are maintained, giving feedback for deeper understanding, making sure most students are engaged. I think one could do all this and students could still fall through the cracks anyway. Notice it said 85%. I'm guessing the 15% who are not engaged would include the school shooters.

[Tom Yum]

People who sit around their dojo and theorize about techniques and approaches they've never used are kidding themselves. Like people who have all kinds of whacky ideas about how to stop a takedown but have never actually gone out and mixed it up.

Reminds me of the old UFC's.

[treelizard]

I thought these links might be of interest.

Creating A Positive Classroom Climate

Classroom Climate Checklist

How Winning Teachers Use Communication

Teacher Parent Collaboration

Hows and Whys of Effective Parent-Teacher Communication

New Wave of Evidence: Relationships Between Effective Parental Involvement and Student Achievement

[treelizard]

okay, just one more

this article rocked my world

he GETS it!!

https://www.wmich.edu/coe/tles/urban/Haberman.pdf

[treelizard]

Yo Liz...what do you know about "Jigsaw Classrooms"?

Um, I know about jigsaw method... It's where you have different groups each read one page of say a five-page paper and report their results to the larger group...

We have tried it in my classes but students won't listen quietly while other groups share and some groups won't share at all...

Anyway, here's some of my favorite quotes from the article.

"Graduates who lack basic skills may be unemployable and represent personal and societal tragedy. However, graduates who possess basic skills but are partially informed, unable to think, and incapable of making moral choices are downright dangerous."

"Indeed, any teacher who believes that he or she can take on an urban teaching assignment and ignore the pedagogy of poverty will be quickly crushed by the students themselves. Examples abound of inexperienced teachers who seek to involve students in genuine learning activities and are met with apathy or bedlam, while older hands who announce, "Take out your dictionaries and start to copy the words that begin with h" are rewarded with compliance or silence."


"But below this facade of control is another, more powerful level on which students actually control, manage, and shape the behavior of their teachers. Students reward teachers by complying. They punish by resisting. In this way students mislead teachers into believing that some things "work" while other things do not. By this dynamic, urban children and youth effectively negate the values promoted in their teachers' teacher education and undermine the nonauthoritarian predispositions that led their teachers to enter the field. And yet, most teachers are not particularly sensitive to being manipulated by students. They believe they are in control and are responding to "student needs," when, in fact, they are more like hostages responding to students' overt or tacit threats of noncompliance and, ultimately, disruption.

It cannot be emphasized enough that, in the real world, urban teachers are never defined as incompetent because their "deprived," "disadvantaged," "abused," "low-income" students are not learning. Instead, urban teachers are castigated because they cannot elicit compliance. Once schools made teacher competence synonymous with student control, it was inevitable that students would sense who was really in charge.

The students' stake in maintaining the pedagogy of poverty is of the strongest possible kind: it absolves them of responsibility for learning and puts the burden on the teachers, who must be accountable for making them learn. In their own unknowing but crafty way, students do not want to trade a system m which they can make their teachers ineffective for one in which they would themselves become accountable and responsible for what they learn. It would be risky for students to swap a "try and make me" system for one that says, "Let's see how well and how much you really can do."

and this:

Unfortunately, the pedagogy of poverty does not work. Youngsters achieve neither minimum levels of life skills nor what they are capable of learning. The classroom atmosphere created by constant teacher direction and student compliance seethes with passive resentment that sometimes bubbles up into overt resistance. Teachers burn out because of the emotional and physical energy that they must expend to maintain their authority every hour of every day. The pedagogy of poverty requires that teachers who begin their careers intending to be helpers, models, guides, stimulators, and caring sources of encouragement transform themselves into directive authoritarians in order to function in urban schools. But people who choose to become teachers do not do so because at some point they decided, "I want to be able to tell people what to do all day and then make them do it!" This gap between expectations and reality means that there is a pervasive, fundamental irreconcilable difference between the motivation of those who select themselves to become teachers and the demands of urban teaching.

[Liberty]

Not that I'd know anything about any of this....

Out of my belief that one should leave no stone unturned in attempting to understand street combat (thanks Bruce!), I've read books by FBI murder profilers, etc. Looking at their findings from what I have seen out there:

When a kid in a supposedly "safe" school snaps, in the end, he does so for the very same reason some kids in "unsafe" schools end up hardcore street thugs. Either he was messed with to a point he could no longer tolerate, by those outside his perceived boundaries of who could or who could not get away with that. Or he was overindulged in such a way that his perception of boundaries has become screwed up. One or the other.

I've known kids who carried guns as young as 8 years old. Some came from homes where they were viciously beaten mentally and physically on a daily basis. These all had the same thing in common - if anyone so much as looks at me as my dad does, I will kill him!

Others came from homes where their every whim was granted. One kid; every time he was invloved in a crime, his attorney mom would bail him out. He is now doing life. These also had one thing in common - their belief the world is here for their amusement. You hear about rich kids commiting awful crimes who also had this attitude.

Both groups -safe/unsafe-are nutshells. Their abuse - horrible mistreatment or horrible overindulging resulting in what I call "a file missing."

While the rest of us "normal" people are able to contain ourselves these kids have been damaged to a point where that "normal" file is missing; they're no longer able to distinguish between right and wrong. While some of them can, but the pleasure (or pain) of their mistreatament continues unabated.

My own solution in dealing with either is neither conservative (put a bullet in em) nor liberal (hug em), but conservationist (meet em at a respectable distance, if unaviodable, gun in hand, if you will). It's one reason I train in martial arts. So I can, yet don't have to "go there" unless I need to.

I've met crazy kids! One day, in an alley with some friends, one of these kids came out of nowhere with a 45 handgun. Looking to shoot someone who he thought had laughed at him. I remember they used to call him "Crazy," or something. When he saw me, he told me I should leave. That I had always been "cool" with him. He then took off shooting after the other guys who were with me who had run off in diferrent directions. He is now in a mental institution.

I went and saw him once. Asked him why he din't shoot me. He told me I had never disrespected him. Never taken sides with others against him. I asked him why he did what he did and he told me had planned on killing them, shooting it out with the police, and then taking his own life. When I asked him why, surprisingly he had an answer... "because then, everyone will know not to mess with others!"

Thinking about this now, it dawns on me how cruel we can be with one another, how stupid, never learning from such tragedies, yet ever in shock when they happen "again."

One possible solution? To those parents on this post, teach your kids to always and genuinely respect those they see as somehow different from them. That alone may someday save their life. These people may not set off until they are adults, in a job somewhere. Better to have treated them with respect when they set off then to be on their "list," when that day comes.

This last thing may seem make for a boring forum, but in memory of those mistreated and of those who have died at their hands, no disrespect intended to anyone on this site.

[treelizard]

I agree that we should always treat students (or anyone) well, but I also think it's important, especially with children, to not be manipulated by their behavior. I also don't agree that one should treat people differently out of fear that they may snap and you'd be on their list. I think treating people fairly might make them feel, in their own skewed minds, that they are being disrespected or that people are taking sides against them. It's hard to explain, but I try my hardest not to play into drama and it drives kids nuts sometimes because they are so used to getting what they want when people do.

[Liberty]

I agree that we should always treat students (or anyone) well, but I also think it's important, especially with children, to not be manipulated by their behavior. I also don't agree that one should treat people differently out of fear that they may snap and you'd be on their list. I think treating people fairly might make them feel, in their own skewed minds, that they are being disrespected or that people are taking sides against them. It's hard to explain, but I try my hardest not to play into drama and it drives kids nuts sometimes because they are so used to getting what they want when people do.

Sometimes I feel like I've had an experience for everything! It's weird...

I used to visit a friend who lived in a building with a lot of people. Every so often, I run into this one guy in the elevator. A loner type. One day, he gets on the elevator with a see through plastic box full of colored pebbles. Thinking to strike a conversation with him I remark, 'Hey, great looking pebbles (or something like that), you building a fish tank or something?'

His reaction -"What do you see me prying into your business!" I mean, really hostile. Like an idiot, I respond with, "Hey, I was just making conversation, that's all..."

"Yeah!" He says, "I know your kind!" At which point I just shut up. I mean, who knows what his problem is.

A few months later, I'm back to visit my friend. The lady at the office stops me and hands me that box with the pebbles in it. Tells me the guy moved and wanted me to have them! That he could tell how bad I'd wanted them!

What a goofy world we live in...

[DickHardman]

you been cutting down on the prozac yet garland? say garland, dont you like posting pics of yourself playing with guns bigger than your entire body??? we see the warning signs over and over again....