i need help please

[Tant01]

Desperate times... Desperate measures...

While I do not personally condone or endorse poisoning personally, it is very much a part of so called "MARTIAL" arts. It's DARK, it's evil but it's effective.

There may well be legal consequences to such an act. It clearly demonstrates intent and premeditation.

Don't confuse self defense with murder...

[Guest]

I don't personally condone or endorse poisoning either. Then again, I don't personally condone or endorse slashing tendons, stabbing arteries, gouging eyes, crushing windpipes, blowing heads off, snapping arms or stamping on testicles.

But all of these things have been discussed with casual bravado, typically by the "real" or "street" crowd on this forum, on a frequent basis. But oh my lord, poisoning, thats just barbaric

[Tant01]

I don't personally condone or endorse poisoning either. Then again, I don't personally condone or endorse slashing tendons, stabbing arteries, gouging eyes, crushing windpipes, blowing heads off, snapping arms or stamping on testicles.

But all of these things have been discussed with casual bravado, typically by the "real" or "street" crowd on this forum, on a frequent basis. But oh my lord, poisoning, thats just barbaric

Subtle paradox, eh?

Look... the moral and legal implications of poisoning clearly demonstrate premeditation.

You just can't claim self defense with a weapon like that.

[Guest]

If its got serious enough to blind someone, cripple someone, stab someone or shoot someone....then its got serious enough to poison someone.

Your point about the legalities is absolutely correct, and having been in court three times, I'm not making light of the implications you will face.

[TTEscrima]

Hee hee.

I love it when people talk all big about "doing whatever it takes to win a fight" and then they piss and whine about how "unfair" or "dishonorable" one tactic or another is.

In all honesty, the fact that tough-as-nails, hardass warriors try to dissuade people from using a tactic - by calling it "cowardly" or otherwise - is a good indicator that it's something that works well.

Funny, I think, how people will stand there and look you in the face and tell you that all the things that constitute "cheating" in a sport fight are the very things you should learn first for real fighting. Then, in the same vein, they look at something like poisoning that works with little or no training against almost anybody and they cry foul.

Talk about completely inconsistent belief systems...

UH huh. Avoidance and lessening the potential damage of an encounter are self defense goals. No way in hell can you sell poisoning CUSTOMERS of an establishment you chose to work in as a viable self defense
solution. There is a MAJOR difference in reasonable actions and those of clearly premeditated mayhem. You couldn't possibly convince a jury that you brought a substance to work to spike customers drinks and smash their heads in while they were puking and that it was a reasonable self defense option. Pure and simple you would be sued and jailed, the establishment would also be sued, you didn't lessen the threat to yourself and your employer, you increased them significantly. Lets not forget I spent 20 years as the equivalent to the police in the Navy I know bullshit attempts to hide behind SD when I see them.

[TTEscrima]

I don't personally condone or endorse poisoning either. Then again, I don't personally condone or endorse slashing tendons, stabbing arteries, gouging eyes, crushing windpipes, blowing heads off, snapping arms or stamping on testicles.

But all of these things have been discussed with casual bravado, typically by the "real" or "street" crowd on this forum, on a frequent basis. But oh my lord, poisoning, thats just barbaric

Poisoning the customers of the establishment you CHOSE to work in because you lacked the skills to do your job legally and correctly is entirely different than using lethal force to defend yourself in an attack on the street that endangers your life or the lives of your family. Anyone who argues that a bar employee being told to poison customers instead of seeking a new job is the same thing as someone defending their life from rape or murder on the streets or in their home isn't being realistic they're just trying to defend an indefensible and idiotic position.

[Guest]

Lets not forget I spent 20 years as the equivalent to the police in the Navy

I don't think you are ever going to let anyone forget that

[TTEscrima]

If its got serious enough to blind someone, cripple someone, stab someone or shoot someone....then its got serious enough to poison someone.

Your point about the legalities is absolutely correct, and having been in court three times, I'm not making light of the implications you will face.

You're really going to try to claim that the courts are going to believe poisoning a customer in an establishment is self defense?? Are you calling the police before or after you poison them? Have you told the owner or manager you're poisoning customers? We aren't talking Cyanide here, this isn't an instant incapacitation, you have time to retreat or get help it isn't self defense it's assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder of someone who hasn't laid a hand on you or presented a weapon.

[TTEscrima]

I don't think you are ever going to let anyone forget that

Experience with and knowledge of the subject at hand is worth mentioning when people continue to make unrealistic and dangerous suggestions.

[Guest]

You're really going to try to claim that the courts are going to believe poisoning a customer in an establishment is self defense?? Are you calling the police before or after you poison them? Have you told the owner or manager you're poisoning customers? We aren't talking Cyanide here, this isn't an instant incapacitation, you have time to retreat or get help it isn't self defense it's assault with a deadly weapon and attempted murder of someone who hasn't laid a hand on you or presented a weapon.

You'll have to help me out here captain, I have no idea where I typed a single word of what you just wrote, but thats OK - you're very good at rolling your eyes.

[TTEscrima]

Don't confuse self defense with murder...

Exactly.

[chillaplata]

Maybe it would be a good idea to carry some kind of mace or pepper spray (assuming that is legal in Oz). Of course, there's the risk the bad guys will take it away from you and use it on you. But if you're in a position where you have to use the spray, you're probably facing a serious ass-kicking in any event, so I'm not sure how much additional downside you have from carrying the spray.

I was watching one of those MSNBC "Lockdown" shows at the gym the other day, and I saw that the guards at San Quentin (who of course aren't allowed to carry firearms into the cell tiers) carry batons and chemical sprays. These guys have to deal with the threat of gang attacks, weapons, etc. every day, so it would probably make sense to learn from and if possible imitate how they arm themselves. Some of them also carry tasers, but I doubt that would be legal in Oz...

[TTEscrima]

You'll have to help me out here captain, I have no idea where I typed a single word of what you just wrote, but thats OK - you're very good at rolling your eyes.

It's the subject of the thread since Mike Brewer advocated it and said he had done it many times and you popped in and equated stabbings etc done to survive a assault to poisoning customers at an establishment you're employed at.

Originally Posted by Michael Wright
If its got serious enough to blind someone, cripple someone, stab someone or shoot someone....then its got serious enough to poison someone.

Caught up now or should I retype it slower? Come the **** on, give it up it was bad advice likely to ruin your life and a far cry from reasonable or self defense.

[Guest]

I stand by that quote, I just never said I would try to defend it as self defence, in court or otherwise.

And... "Come the **** on, give it up" ? Hey fella, that may be the way it worked in the Navy, but you'll have to wine me and dine me a bit first

[TTEscrima]

The people I feel a need to prepare for in the real world are those who wouldn't flinch at jamming a pen in my eye or poisoning my drink or even blowing up my car. Short of those types of people, everyone else is just a niusance I can walk away from. And how often am I really going to run into the truly "dangerous" ones anyway?

Better to keep it in perspective, remind yourself - even through trying to imagine the worst things you could do to someone else - what lengths a bad guy might go to in order to hurt you, and then decide if it's really worth it. If it's not worth "doing anything and everything" then it may not be worth doing anything at all.

You ARE the those people chum, you're poisoning customers, you're no different than any other criminal scumbag, you act like you're showing how tough you are when you really just showed how low you'll sink over BS. It's clear that honor and integrity are foreign concepts to you, since you claim to have done this multiple times thus, I'll waste no more time on your "story" tell it to the young and inexperienced who don't see it for what it is. You're either full of BS about spiking drinks with visine or you're bragging about criminal activity.

I HAVE done it. More than once. I never saw bleeding or dead customers, either. I did see vomiting customers who were eager to leave, though.

Then you need to contact Visine, snopes and the medical profession and set them straight.

Interesting that you claim you did it, and then told us about it and recommended it to someone who asked for advice, but NOW you were just kidding to teach us a lesson. Dude, thats WEAK.

Frankly, I think the facts of the case lean far more rationally toward leaving and finding a new bar job. I mean - it's a f*cking bar job, right? And there's no getting your honor back after letting these guys walk all over you the way they have. So leave and work someplace else.

There's a certain degree of tongue in cheek with my posts, TTE. I've always said that if it's worth fighting over, it ought to be worth fighting mean and nasty over. And if it's not worth facing somebody who's going to fight mean and nasty back - find a different solution. Personally? I'd never have let them intimidate me into not calling the cops in the first place, and if they had broken my jaw, I'd have made sure they paid for it in court. Failing that, I'd go find another bar job down the road. It's Australia for chrissake. There's probably 15 more pubs on the same block! All I'm saying is that if it comes down to fighting - if violence is the only option you have left - then to hell with half-measures. Poison the sonofabitch and beat him to death in the bathroom.

And if that option makes you a little queasy (here's the lesson, champs), then maybe what you're all pissed off about isn't really worth fighting over, eh?

Uh yeah, So giving bad advice that you think is funny in a thread where someone asks for help is acceptable as the moderator of a Martial art forum?

You weren't joking or teaching a moral lesson until after I came into the thread after it was dead and revived it.