Womens self defense, or MMA grappling?

[Sagacious Lu]

Actually (without applying traits to floks I don't know) he has a good point.

There is a certain defeatist attitude or mindset among many these days when it comes to defending against weapons with bare hands. It's almost dogma in Mcdojos too. Sad really.

I think it's time for higher standards. Taking a weapon away is not impossible. It happens.

There was an incident in the news recently where an elderly woman took a gun away from her attacker and threatened to shoot him in the nutsack. He ran away...

Even untrained victims can disarm an idiot with a gun sometimes...

If you notice I said that it was "a losing proposition" because although you will win sometimes you will lose far more often. That's why The Dog Brothers used the name "Die Less Often". Any time you're faced with a gun (or knife) and you are unarmed the odds are against you, which means that it's much better to give up your wallet, or television, or car than it is to try to fight, no matter how well trained you think you are. More importantly I think anyone who trains for such situations without being honest with themselves about the odds is dangerously deluded. That goes right along with my belief that anyone who trains OTHERS to fight unarmed against weapons that doesn't make their students aware of how likely they are to be maimed or killed is a dangerous fraud. That doesn't show a lack of confidence, it just shows a firm grasp of reality. Otherwise you fall prey to the idea that if you play enough "what if" games with toy weapons that you're invincible.
Obviously if it's an extreme situation, for instance if the Al Qaeda is trying to take you and your family hostage YOU HAVE to do something. However, I still think the kung fu disarms are flat out lame.

[jubaji]

I bolded your evident lack of confidence in yourself, your training and the systems you continue to defend. It's your life, you know what its worth so you know how much effort you think its worth to defend. It's clear you have so little confidence in yourself and the training you've received that your mind's already made you're going to die if you're faced with an actual SD situation. That's your issue not mine.

What an asshole you are.

[TTEscrima]

Wow, you just jumped to a number of astonishing conclusions. Have fun with your fantasies of beating up gunmen with your bare hands

I jumped? You started out making cracks about KF eyepokes against a firearm, then you leaped to "fancy disarms", and all the while wailing how suicidal to even attempt stopping someone from shooting you is.

I haven't advocated any specific attack (becuase the variables are too great), much less an eyegouge or a "fancy" disarm, meanwhile you've discounted everything emptyhanded as a "losing proposition" and "suicidal."

It seems the one leaping around making conclusions without any basis is you.

[jubaji]

And you'd know this because...................?.

Because I'm not a theory boy.

[Hardball]

The professor could cripple you with a finger lock, but if you want to actually learn something go scuttle along and look up Wally Jay. He was a very close friend to my teacher and his influence impacted the our knowledge.

I know of Professor Jay. He is about 95 now. I met his son Leon at a seminar he was giving in Pennsylvania. He is hooked up with George Dillman and Leon was demonstrating a No Touch knockout.

I practice gun disarms all the time with unloaded pellet guns. It is possible especially if you know wrist locks/breaks/throws. The thing is I always emphasize not to go for a disarm unless you have the feeling the assailant is going to shoot you no matter what you say or do. It's best to cooperate but practicing gun disarms gives you hope in a bad situation. The unique problem that I see recently is that most robberies are carried out by teams of bad guys, say 2 or 3 with all of them being armed. It's not just one on one anymore.

Truth be told, a lot of instructors will get you killed with their gun disarms. I mean, I'm always hearing these Krav Magra instructors talk about disarming machine guns and sawed off shotguns. Yikes, just cooperate unless you are trained and you see a clear opening. And then you better strike with lightning speed because if you fook up you are dead.

[Sagacious Lu]

I jumped? You started out making cracks about KF eyepokes against a firearm, then you leaped to "fancy disarms", and all the while wailing how suicidal to even attempt stopping someone from shooting you is.

I haven't advocated any specific attack (becuase the variables are too great), much less an eyegouge or a "fancy" disarm, meanwhile you've discounted everything emptyhanded as a "losing proposition" and "suicidal."

It seems the one leaping around making conclusions without any basis is you.

Reading comprehension isn't one of your strong points is it? Why are you so upset, is it because my opinion threatens you in some way or are you just incredibly sexually frustrated? Maybe it's a combination of the two...

[TTEscrima]

However, I still think the kung fu disarms are flat out lame.

Since you seem to be harping on the "lameness of FK disarms" (whatever that supposed to mean, theres quite a few styles of "KF" and you've discounted them all) What styles do the disarms you practice come from?

[jubaji]

A certain few folks round here are extremely sensitive and feel threatened by anything but abject obeisance to a hyper-sensitive ego...

[TTEscrima]

I practice gun disarms all the time with unloaded pellet guns. It is possible especially if you know wrist locks/breaks/throws. The thing is I always emphasize not to go for a disarm unless you have the feeling the assailant is going to shoot you no matter what you say or do. It's best to cooperate but practicing gun disarms gives you hope in a bad situation. The unique problem that I see recently is that most robberies are carried out by teams of bad guys, say 2 or 3 with all of them being armed. It's not just one on one anymore.

Truth be told, a lot of instructors will get you killed with their gun disarms. I mean, I'm always hearing these Krav Magra instructors talk about disarming machine guns and sawed off shotguns. Yikes, just cooperate unless you are trained and you see a clear opening. And then you better strike with lightning speed because if you fook up you are dead.

Nice post.

We do them with loaded airsoft pistols and eyeprotection, you try to shoot them and they try to stop you, no questions of whether a particular concept was viable in that scenario or not. It goes without saying you should avoid going up against an armed opponent, unless they force it you.

Try practicing using one bg as a shield and disrupting their lines of fire by positioning yourself so they have to shoot in each others direction to shoot at you. The real bitch is the hidden shooter behind the first shooters back.

It provides me with endless entertainment that a site full of people who went along with posters who advocated using double handed pushes against a knife, or applauded another posters tale of suplexing his way out of a knife attack, and who consistently discount the knife on the ground against their GJJ finds the idea that defense against a firearm at the same ranges is suicide.

Whats even funnier is its the same crowd who thought MMA was acceptable for Military Combatives.

[Tant01]

Well... Ive gotta say one thing. If a guy wants to shoot you dead he probably will. (intent) If he gets THAT close you have a choice to make. Personally I'd rather he DIDN't have a gun pointed at me or someone else. To that end I have prepared to deal with weapons... It's not as difficult as some would have you believe.

One of many reasons I love my karambit...

[Sagacious Lu]

Since you seem to be harping on the "lameness of FK disarms" (whatever that supposed to mean, theres quite a few styles of "KF" and you've discounted them all) What styles do the disarms you practice come from?

I don't practice gun disarms... why would I practice something I thought was lame? Again, reading comprehension. If you want to know what style(s) I've practiced read over my old posts; I've mentioned all of them at one point or another.

[Sagacious Lu]

One of many reasons I love my karambit...

That's not exactly unarmed though is it?

[TTEscrima]

I don't practice gun disarms...

Well then, I'll definitely consider your opinion on the subject with the respect it obviously deserves.

why would I practice something I thought was lame?

Yep, adding another possible tool to your toolbox to prevent a weapon wielding attacker from killing you is lame, you're right.

Again, reading comprehension. If you want to know what style(s) I've practiced read over my old posts; I've mentioned all of them at one point or another.

Well in light of your expertise and views on SD Mr. "I don't practice gun disarms" I don't think that would be a constructive use of my time.

[TigerClaw]

When will this troll go away?

I won't, but I hope you will, you really do not add anything of value in your attacking mocking words, they are just like a kid shouting across the fence and saying nothing. You are really a sad character.

[TigerClaw]

We've already established that TC is full of shit and is thus on ignore with the rest of the trolls and time wasters who add zero substance to the forum and I wasn't addressing his comments, I was addressing yours.

You have established nothing, I know what I am talking about. I want you to show me even one things that proves me wrong about anything I have said, even one thing, I wait eagerly. But I know you cannot, so please go off into a little corner and play with your little monkeys and then consider what you say.

After that ban yourself from this forum and never again even attempt to attack a kung Fu teacher with no facts or any sound reasoning. As a matter of fact ban yourself from the entire internet and every other martial club in on the planet, you have the wrong attitude.

You establish nothing except your own error.