Fireman's Carry

[jubaji]

The key to executing something like a fireman's is timing, not forcing it and muscling through. And clearing the arm doesn't require squeezing the shit out of the wrist. That's really just going to telegraph what you're up to and elicit a natural reaction likely to get you jammed up on the way in. You're better off taking that shot with elbow control anyway. Wrist control leaves too much room between you. And even worrying about the nuts is stupid because any of that nonsense is only reducing the chances of finishing the shot and increasing the chances of leaving you in a bad position.

[Eyegouge]

As soon as you grab the wrist you're already changing levels and shooting. It's the first step in the chain of the move. If you don't grab and physically move the arm they'll use it to stuff the shot. Grabing the wrist hard and moving it out of the way clears the path to come through the crotch, you have to clear and then pull his trapped arm as hard as you can (it's helping load him on your shoulders just like hitting the crotch is the other end of the tilt).

The firemans carry is a real low percentage shot, because it's a low percentage shot there are serveral ways people have invented to raise it's sucess rate, even a little bit. Coming hard through the crotch rather than snaking the leg is just one of many. But I'm confused how you even get in to the crotch without clearing an arm, and keeping it. Unless you're wrestling a chump, noone should get deep enough to even start a fireman's carry without clearing an arm.

PS, if you're doin it mean, when you grab the nutz your arm is folded. Your shoulder is in his bladder. Not in his chest trying to reach for 'em with an extended arm.

[haumana2000]

from the mma standpoint?

two cents again.. There are many interesting viewpoints here, from mma perspective and since the Firemans is a push/pull type throw, I have my guys set it from the muay thai clinch i.e as I throw right knee and left knee, then step back and pivot with my left leg to bring him around, the moment he steps "his" right knee forward is when you would use the firemans penetration step. the left hand would have to slide from the base of his skull, to the inside fulcrum of his right arm to provide the arm control.
cheers.

[jubaji]

...............


Exactly.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I kinda agree with jubs on this one, fireman's carry is all about penetration, not saying other takedowns don't need it but where-as a halfassed doubleleg you can get some redemption with perseverence and pull, a fireman's carry without perfect penetration will not work (no such thing as a half assed fireman's carry!). Squeezing the wrist is gonna telegraph the shot, which'll interfere with penetration. As far as grabbing the nuts if you got adequate penetration your arm probably won't be in prime position to grab the nuts.

[jubaji]

My dad showed me how to do a fireman's carry when I was just a little kid, he learned it while he wrestled for Eastern Illinois University back in the 50's. (my dad's 73). When he was 68 he threw my 215lb sod laying friend from my highschool wrestling team with his version of the fireman's carry. The key, is snatching a the lead wrist hard, (don't grab it like a girl) and then snatching a handfull of nutz (hard, like a pissed off girl).

I gotta disagree here. Squeezing the shit out of his wrist is as good as telling him "I'm going to shoot now!" It's the momentum and off-balancing that makes it work and if you don't get penetration you will get stuck halfway and you're screwed. Grabbing nuts also makes no sense as you will get all bunched up instead of moving through his center of gravity and taking his balance. Like any other shot, it depends on the penetration which depends on the set up. A well executed fireman's doesn't rely on muscling it at all.

[Eyegouge]

My dad showed me how to do a fireman's carry when I was just a little kid, he learned it while he wrestled for Eastern Illinois University back in the 50's. (my dad's 73). When he was 68 he threw my 215lb sod laying friend from my highschool wrestling team with his version of the fireman's carry. The key, is snatching a the lead wrist hard, (don't grab it like a girl) and then snatching a handfull of nutz (hard, like a pissed off girl). When you get a handfull on junk, while shooting in, it makes your opponent come up on his toes and makes loading him onto your shoulders soooooo much easier, no one sprawls when you have a handfull of their crotch. They stand straight up on their toes and are super easy to pick up off the ground.

Now, if you are in an event where acctually grabbing the nutz is not allowed, when you shoot and jerk the wrist over the back of your neck, instead of taking a handfull, slam your radial bone into the crotch as your penetrating (like you do with a crossface) and that will make them load themselves onto your back, then catch the crotch in the crook of your elbow. Too many people try to be nice about the move, you really have to jerk on the wrist hard and come straight UP into the crotch even harder. Once you learn how to come up through the crotch hard it makes the firemans carry a dangerous offensive weapon.

[Tant01]

Interesting...

When I wrestled years ago in high school I had a great success with the fireman's carry so much that my team mates called me fire chief. I have had really good success with it against jiu jitsu players because most of them only use single leg takedown, double leg takedown, and maybe ankle picks and aren't expecting a fireman's carry. It catches them off guard and allows you to quickly follow up with something such as a mount position or something else such as an arm bar of some type because you still have a hold of thier arm from doing the fireman's.

What else can you do with kataguruma? In judo you throw the uke down to one side ("gently")

[csc]

The combat SC firemen's carry version requires to throw your opponent while both of your feet are straight and together. This way you will raise your opponent's body to the maximum height before you drop him. You then continue your body rotation into a low bow-arrow stance and send your opponent's head straight down to the ground (as airplane crashing with head down first).

A SC guy likes to keep the upper body vertical straight up and only use the legs muscle to lift his opponent (from the bending position to the straight position). This way, the chance to hurt the low back will be reduced.

[mellow]

How to do a Fireman's Carry Judo Style | ExpertVillage Videos

Hey Hardball,

There is a Jujitsu version (like almost everyJudo throw) from a cross arm grab that if you catch them right you get a nifty armbar across your shoulder.

[jubaji]

A lot of things are 'possible' that are so unlikely as to be impractical and a waste of training time.

[csc]

You don't have to catch right on your opponent's elbow joint. The moment that his hand touches your leg, any contact point on his arm will have the same effect (of course the elbow will be the best contact point). This is the "cracking" that I was talking about in another thread. Since not many people use it in today's environment, some people may think it doesn't exist.

If one spend time to train it, he may be able to use it someday. Nothing is impossible in combat. It's not very common used and I'm not sure it will be even allowed in sport. I do believe it's not allowed in Judo.

I just love those "illegal moves" more than those "legal moves".

[jubaji]

But consider what his opponent would have to do and the amount of time he would have to do it, to try and catch his arm between those two legs at exactly the elbow joint at the exact second his arm was there.

[csc]

You can see that at 0.03, his right elbow joint is so close to his opponennt's left knee.

YouTube - Wrestling - Firemans Carry

[jubaji]

There are a lot of things that can go awry with a fireman's, but that is not among the more likely.