On the mat with Jubidoo

[jubaji]

I politely asked for and explanation of the shoot. But all you've been doing is trying to avoid answering it. It's because any explanation you give is going to put the head out in front of the body.

You see? I was right to be careful, as you still seem confused despite the fact that I have taken pains to explain it to you.

In case you were wondering, yes I noticed how you tried to slip "shoulders back" into one of your 'questions.' You failed to make your agenda there (and with your 'polite' questions in general) as that guess was quite wrong. I would say nice try, but it really wasn't.

[jubaji]

One of those factors being avoiding answering the questions ask to you.

Not at all. I'm trying to answer carefully because you don't really seem to understand the subject in general and I don't want to mislead you.

[kingoftheforest]

One of those factors being avoiding answering the questions ask to you.

I politely asked for and explanation of the shoot. But all you've been doing is trying to avoid answering it. It's because any explanation you give is going to put the head out in front of the body.

You are trying to evade the answer and dilute your responses to cover your ass.

In your above, and very crappy explanation of a double leg take down, shear physical placement puts the head in the lead.

And what's even more laughable is you are still trying to defend that you can "change up" in the middle of the shoot. Anyone who has ever wrestled or seen a shoot performed could tell that shooting in has to be a committed move.

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to watch you trip over your own feet again trying to back up that shooting doesn't lead with the head, or leave the face and head unprotected.

Your answers look like a liberal being interviewed by Fox News.

"Well kinda but not really. I don't want to commit to actually answering anything."

[jubaji]

BTW where does that leave the head?

That's going to depend on a number of factors.

[kingoftheforest]

In the most basic way (and in perhaps an impractically generalized and idealized sense), you would hope to get deep penetration - where you can get your lead step between or even beyond his feet as you move through the opponent - and your hands in position to control one or both of his legs (with 'control' meaning blocking, unbalancing, or moving that point of structure). Where your shoulders will end up is dependent upon the above, not the other way around.

BTW where does that leave the head?

[kingoftheforest]

In the most basic way (and in perhaps an impractically generalized and idealized sense), you would hope to get deep penetration - where you can get your lead step between or even beyond his feet as you move through the opponent - and your hands in position to control one or both of his legs (with 'control' meaning blocking, unbalancing, or moving that point of structure). Where your should will end up is dependent upon the above, not the other way around.


Beyond that, we are talking about the finish and not just the shot.

Thanks that's all I really wanted.

[jubaji]

I never said you did.

I asked if I was reading your short replies wrong to please elaborate on what you mean.

I asked for clarification after giving you incite to what I was reading.

Where are the placement of the hands and shoulder on a double leg take down. I am asking for a specific shoot that I have a general knowledge of.

To narrow it down since as you proclaimed there are so many shots and finishes.

So I am asking about a specific shoot up to the point the opponent is on the mat.

Specifically hand, and shoulder placement for a double leg take down after shooting in.

In the most basic way (and in perhaps an impractically generalized and idealized sense), you would hope to get deep penetration - where you can get your lead step between or even beyond his feet as you move through the opponent - and your hands in position to control one or both of his legs (with 'control' meaning blocking, unbalancing, or moving that point of structure). Where your shoulders will end up is dependent upon the above, not the other way around.


Beyond that, we are talking about the finish and not just the shot.

[jubaji]

Could you please tell me where your shoulder would land if you shot in on a stunned opponent and took him down?

How tall is he? How tall are you? How, and in what direction was he moving when you shot? What kind of finish are you looking for?

The point really isn't to get your shoulders somewhere as much as it is to get good pentration and your hands in a position to control one or more of his key structure points.

[jubaji]

You don't commit too much power to the shot because you are not sure if you out guessed your opponent or not and may need to "change the game plan" mid shoot.

I didn't say that. Going 100% and being able to respond in a dynamic moving situation is one of the skills that an experienced wrestler develops.

[kingoftheforest]

I didn't say that.

I never said you did.

I asked if I was reading your short replies wrong to please elaborate on what you mean.

I asked for clarification after giving you incite to what I was reading.

Where are the placement of the hands and shoulder on a double leg take down. I am asking for a specific shoot that I have a general knowledge of.

To narrow it down since as you proclaimed there are so many shots and finishes.

So I am asking about a specific shoot up to the point the opponent is on the mat.

Specifically hand, and shoulder placement for a double leg take down after shooting in.

[jubaji]

There is no such thing as "basic mechanics" of a shoot other than keep your face up shoulders back and hips tucked?

Oh no, you don't want to do that. Your shoulders should actually be rounded forward (elbows in), and your neck should be 'bulled.'

[jubaji]

There is no basic shoot, it is an advanced move for experienced wrestlers who figured it out on their own.

You don't commit too much power to the shoot because you are not sure if you out guessed your opponent or not and may need to "change the game plan" mid shoot.

I didn't say that.

[jubaji]

So basically when you shoot in there is no commitment to the move. You kinda do it and hope you out guessed your opponent?.

I didn't say that, but neither should you overcomit. You see a lot of young, inexperienced wrestlers just throw themselves around and are unable to respond to a counter.

[jubaji]

So then when the coach was teaching the 8 year olds how to shoot in the video, it wasn't a basic move, and they were all advanced wrestlers?

Am I to believe there is not a basic mechanics of the shot? That you just throw someone in the ring and say "Figure it out."?

There is nothing taught as a basic shoot in wrestling?

I just don't want to give you any misleadingly generalized answers. You have to understand there is a distinction between a shot and a finish. When teaching kids you begin by working (for a loooooooong time if you do it right) on drop steps and the proper mechanics of initiating the shot.

[kingoftheforest]

Sure you can; happens all the time, although rather than 'stopping' you will transition off to something else or to another finish based on your opponent's reaction. Often it is a matter of anticipating that reaction and playing the chess game 3 or 4 moves out from the initial shot. And of course the shot can even be a complete feint intended to get the opponent into position for something else entirely.

So basically when you shoot in there is no commitment to the move. You kinda do it and hope you out guessed your opponent?

If I am reading this wrong please elaborate, but here is what I understand from you terse replies.

There is no basic shoot, it is an advanced move for experienced wrestlers who figured it out on their own.

You don't commit too much power to the shoot because you are not sure if you out guessed your opponent or not and may need to "change the game plan" mid shoot.

There is no such thing as "basic mechanics" of a shoot other than keep your face up shoulders back and hips tucked?

Could you please tell me where your shoulder would land if you shot in on a stunned opponent and took him down?

I just want the mechanics of where the shoulder and hands are in an ideal shoot that worked, if you are going for a double leg take down. Can you explain the mechanics of that type of shoot? The objective being to take the opponent to the mat and stop there, for now.