Question for Creationists

[Tom Yum]

Holy shit. Boy, did I misread the title of this debate! I thought it said "Question for Cartoonists." All the religious fire and brimstone, I thought someone drew another comic or something and set off the latest run of jihads. My bad...

I'll have what you're having...


I think.

[GQchris]

pimping ain't easy, that's the only thing I'm sure I can say for now...

[treelizard]

That's an interesting question, and I wonder how useful it is to get caught up in doctrine. In Buddhism one is not supposed to be attached to ANY doctrine, even Buddhism itself.

So the martial artist who trains only with one weapon and then is stuck without it is totally lost, just as the religious or spiritual person without his holy water or sage or crystal or rosary, until they learn to transcend the tool... And a martial artist can do himself a disservice by spending seminar after seminar learning and memorizing new variations of drills, instead of thinking about the underlying concept that connects them all... Why is it that all the religions are so different but all the mystics speak exactly the same?

This isn't to say that I don't see immense value in one seeking their own truth, that nagging voice that makes you realize exactly what you should be doing, but you don't want to...But yeah, this IS all semantics. My ultimate question for myself is, what can I do to drop enough ego to make room for God/Love/Light/Prana/Qi/whatever you wanna call it to flow through me, so I can better help others through selfless service? (Mike, I know you have a problem with that s word, so feel free to replace it with "selfish". )

The rest is just details.

Oh, and by the way, the best ice cream sundae can be found at the Sugar Bowl in Oldtown Scottsdale. The best malts, too. It's got this 50's soda fountain feel to it and striped walls! In fact, the parlor has even been featured in the comic strip 'Family Circus'--and since this thread is a question for cartoonists, there's my evidence! So you don't need to search anymore.

[osopardo]

...eleventy billion quadrillion years ago, a giant bowl containing a plethora of spaghetti explodamagated. :-/

Right! (yuh forgot to mention the meatballs parmesan cheese sprinklies).

[osopardo]

long time ago my wrestling coach kept tryin to teach me some particular technique which I was certain wouldn't work. I kept coming up with objections and excuses as to why I couldn't do it and how it wouldn't work for me. Finally, in desperation he said to me, "You don't have to believe it'll work, just obey me and do it!" And that is truly the definition of faith- obeying in spite of not believing. Check out the the attitude of the Roman centurion. You want to talk about evolution vs. creationism? Bible doctrine vs. archaelogy? It don't mean nuthin' mate! Whether we want to or not we all believe in something. Even those who say they don't believe in anythin' believe in somethin'!. Faith for the warrior is all about obedience, innit.

[Tom Yum]

Right! (yuh forgot to mention the meatballs parmesan cheese sprinklies).

What?? No oregano, no basil???

[Bjjexpertise@be]

No. It was a simple bowl of spaghetti with only tomato sauce added to it.

[J-Luck]

Quick question for the people debating this actual topic - especially the part about the search for "truth." Actually, I have two questions.

First, since truth is not subjective but the human experience is (by definition, it's different for us all and subject to our own interpretations), how can humans ever in their experience know truth?

Second, isn't it a little self-defeating to decide ahead of time that Truth is some high and noble goal in the first place? I mean, you're starting from a totally subjective conclusion in assuming that truth is even worth understanding in the first place, and that the pursuit of it is somehow more noble (or even more productive) than the pursuit of deceit, flasehood, and untruth. Hell, since Truth is nothing more than a human label anyway, how can you even be sure that the pursuit of truth is any more productive, inherently good, or intrinsically noble than, say, the pursuit of perfect ice cream sundae?

See, the real lesson, folks, is that your faith in God is just like your faith in Truth. Your truth is God by a different name. It is the high ideal, and the objective "It" that exists beyond and above the human experience. So is anything else you put at the far end of a quest or spiritual pursuit. You gave it its value, its nobility. And you have faith that your hopes are justified, even though nothing can ever prove them to be, since even by your own definitions the things you have faith in can't be understood from the standpoint of we lowly subjective humans. Even the athiests do it. They have as much faith in their notion that God doesn't exist as believers have to the contrary. That should tell you something. Namely, it's not the pursuit, or the goal, or the endgame that matters, but the undying and undeniable human need for there to be "something" beyond themselves - be it the precision and clarity of Truth, the Compassion of God, of the vast suddenness of the Nothing that athiests think lies beyond this life. In a nutshell, you're all arguing the same damned thing.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go and search for the perfect Ice Cream Sundae.

Wait, truth is constant, solid, unwavering. Truth is only not worth knowing if you are lazy or ignorant. Also, truth is not defined by the human experience... It is what it is, period. For example, if you and I look up on a sunny day with no clouds, and I say, "Hey, the sky is blue". Then, you say, "Nope, its red". Well, neither of us HAS to be right, but there is no grey area. They wavelength and makeup of the light being reflected off the atmosphere to our eyes is constant, and that is the truth. It may be bright green. But it is an existence regardless of the human being. Another example is: Texas is a state. It is a landmass that exists with set boundaries. Now, you don't have to believe me, and I've never been there, but it does exist, outside of the human experience.

[J-Luck]

long time ago my wrestling coach kept tryin to teach me some particular technique which I was certain wouldn't work. I kept coming up with objections and excuses as to why I couldn't do it and how it wouldn't work for me. Finally, in desperation he said to me, "You don't have to believe it'll work, just obey me and do it!" And that is truly the definition of faith- obeying in spite of not believing. Check out the the attitude of the Roman centurion. You want to talk about evolution vs. creationism? Bible doctrine vs. archaelogy? It don't mean nuthin' mate! Whether we want to or not we all believe in something. Even those who say they don't believe in anythin' believe in somethin'!. Faith for the warrior is all about obedience, innit.

Archeology does nothing but support the Bible. But, I agree with the rest, good post.