NRA wants terror suspect to have acccess to guns

[darrianation]

Regardless of the rhetoric or what one's personal position on guns are the argument is mute because it is a constitutional RIGHT every bit as much as the 1st amendment is. The Militia argument is bull shit because if that was true than why is the right to bear arms in the "bill of rights" where power is restricted to the government and given to the people? The wording "People" in the second amendment is clearly referring to the individual, everywhere else the word "people" is referenced in the constitution it is commonly excepted that it means the citizen or the individual.

I realize our forefathers weren't perfect and weren't always the most righteous folks in the Christian sense. And I also realize that God is a taboo word in our society and making mention of any relationship of God and the government is an abomination. But if we believe our rights or not unalienable then certainly they are created by man and therefore can be taken away by man. I think there has been a huge push to turn our rights into a privilege, the state which grants privileges can just as easily take them away.

Once these precepts have become trodden under foot that is when democracy breaks down and what follows is always a dictatorship. The belief that our rights are given by a higher power than man is the reason our democracy has lasted as long as it has, no other democracy has lasted this long. Once our constitutional protections are whittled away and dismantled piece by piece then we will cease to be free and we will become subjugated to man. The thing about being subjugated to man is that it is in his nature to once he gains a little authority he is easily corrupted by its power and begins to practice unrighteous dominion.

Some food for thought:

Benjamin Franklin once said: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence.” Thomas Jefferson

[Ahsen]

Very interesting topic
PLease forgive me on my lack of knowledge on American History and politics as you can see I'm not a US citizern

The idea that the US govt want total control of its people is something to ponder Does this mean a second civial war ?
Can it go that far ?

Also I want bring your attention to kiliings in school
such as the one that happen recently.

[darrianation]

I just got done having a conversation with some folks about the anti-gun grabbers like Nancy Pelosi among others (Schumer, McCarthy, etc) wanting to take away our guns. Why is it after a shooting such as what happened at Columbine or Virginia Tech they want to take the guns away from the folks that had nothing to do with it?

Maybe folks, politicians and those who vote for certain politicians believe we no longer need a constitution or that the RIGHTS guaranteed in the constitution are more like a privilege than a right. Maybe we should shit can the whole thing and live under whatever the majority thinks is best even if that costs us everything including any rights or privileges at all.

A Supreme Court judge once said "Democracy is like a lynch mob there is only one person against it." The constitution protects us the individual from the government and from our selves, from an unjust majority…form mob rule. That is why we live in a republic and have a constitution.

If you think you can simply do away with the constitution or portions of it then prepare for wide spread and insidious side effects. You see if you think it is okay to tinker with one thing what is to prevent them from tinkering with another thing maybe even something you care about? The likely result of which will be living in a police state because the government certainly has proven over and over again that they do not to trust us the citizen. The Government is paranoid, and what protects us from them is the constitution, what protects the constitution is an armed citizenry.

Our founding fathers, as imperfect as they were, understood the nature of man and how a man or group of men would rule if left unchecked. So they established the constitution to protect the citizenry from the government. Are we now so naive and trusting of the government to allow them to dismantle it one piece at a time or even wholesale? Have we forgotten the lessons they learned? Or is it a case of far too many Americans are simply just too apathetic and those that would do harm to our liberties (politicians and certain judges) are left free do so unchecked?

You may not like everything in the constitution but it is our greatest and really only protection from those who would rule unjustly and we the citizen are its protectors. If we drop the ball because we vote for those who will not defend the constitution or simply don't care one way or the other, the day will come when we will be telling our children how it used to be…to be free.

[Ahsen]

I can understand what your saying

what i can see is:
your right to carring the gun and thier right to live free without fear

for the vigina tech , columbine and other atrocites of shooting in school
people ponder, if guns were ban would it had happen ? would it have saved lives ?


Theres another question i wanna bring

Do Guns Kill People or Do People Kill People?

everyone knows that guns are useless when its not used so is it the person ?
Guns can be compare to cars and knifes


Do Firetrucks and hoses save lives or those who use them?
Does an Ambulance give you First-Aid or those who drive them?
Does a scalpel remove a tumor or the Doctor using it?
Does a wrench fix your car or the mechanic using it?
Do shoes win the game or the player wearing them?

Basically Firearms don't kill or save lives
People do both.
food for thought people ?

[darrianation]

Ahsen, right or wrong at least you look at the issues with some degree of practicality. I don’t think you should give up and quit the forum because someone disagrees with you, even if heated - emotions happen.

I think you have some good points but let me put this out there:

Ahsen: “I don't understand is how the NRA could give guns to terrorists suspects its a fifty fifty chance that these suspects could be one of them.
Isn't that a big risk ?”

First of all the NRA doesn’t give guns to anyone (unless you win it a raffle) it is an organization made up of private citizens that is set up to protect the 2nd amendment of the constitution of the United States and has been around for over a 100 years.

The “risk” factor cannot be done away with by taking guns from the law abiding. You see gun laws only affect the law abiding not the criminal; it only disarms the good guys. Then you have only two groups of people with guns the criminals and the government leaving the good guys at their mercy which in either case is a scary thought.

Giving up rights to reduce “risk” is a victim’s point of view because you fear for your safety more than your freedom. Freedom does not come cheap it carries a high price tag; the price is often paid in blood.

[darrianation]

Ahsen: The idea that the US govt want total control of its people is something to ponder Does this mean a second civial war ?
Can it go that far ?

You see this kind of talk can get a citizen pegged as a terrorist. The government can label anyone who they “perceive” as a threat…and that as we have seen can be anybody.

[medic06]

You people be crazy.

That's the most sensible thing anyone has said on this forum in a long time.

[Tom Yum]

They always add that last part in. No matter what. They can't hide thier dislike of the Jews, any more then our radical Christians (which seem to be getting more mainstream all the time) can hide thier dislike of gays.

I'm no radical Christian. Many gays are kind, polite, capable professional people who are excellent residents in their neihborhoods. I don't agree with the lifestyle one bit but they are just as legitimate citizens as we are.

I get reverse-bashed for simply disagreeing with the life style by people who identify themselves as open minded. Irony.

So, perhaps if ALL muslims will quit hating, disliking or being biased towards the jews, calm down a little bit, shave thier beards (Which makes no sense to even have a beard in that extreme hot desert climate!) stop blowing up shit, turn Osama Bin Laden in when he is hiding in your country, stop owning and operating these Madrassas (Jr. Terrorist schools) and stop using barbaric, evil Shariat law (the kind that has women flogged 250 times for being raped) then perhaps we will stop calling you "Ragheads".

Well neither does wearing suit jackets, long slacks and ties where the summer temperature rises above 90 but its a tradition that'll never stop lol but your other points are noteworthy especially some of the excessively barbaric laws toward women.

[Ahsen]

Ahsen, right or wrong at least you look at the issues with some degree of practicality. I don’t think you should give up and quit the forum because someone disagrees with you, even if heated - emotions happen.

I think you have some good points but let me put this out there:

LOL sorry for the long reply darrianation i havent left the forum due to disagreement Its just atht I'm busy lot of things and that
Plus I don't enough Info about the issue and Taboo of Guns in America.
I don't wanna tarnish this thread with sub knowledge answers
I'm trying really hard here
Open this discussion to people especailly the ones who are living in the States whats do you think on Gun control
and your opinion on Do Guns Kill People or Do People Kill People?


what do you think Tom Yum ?

[Tom Yum]

Open this discussion to people especailly the ones who are living in the States whats do you think on Gun control
and your opinion on Do Guns Kill People or Do People Kill People?


what do you think Tom Yum ?

I think I'm hungry.

Otherwise, I'd say that people kill people. Guns, knives, garrote wire, explosives, makeshift blunt objects or what have you are tools used to carry out man's intentions.

A knife can fillet a freshly caught fish for a healthy meal or it can slice into a person. It just depends on man's intentions.

[treelizard]

Okay, I had to repost this.

Dr Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet

Dear Dr. Laura,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that (Leviticus 18:22) clearly states it to be an abomination.

End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in (Exodus 21:7). In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. (Lev. 25:44) states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians.Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. (Exodus 35:2) clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. (Lev. 21:20) states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by (Lev.19:27). How should they die?

9. I know from (Lev.11:6-8) that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates (Lev. 19:19) by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan, Jim

[Tom Yum]

One more thing, Tom. I read your posts, and many other posts from other posters who are obviously born again Christian-I don't find much that I disagree with, or am offended by. But just like these moderate muslim types, I do feel you could be doing a lot more to save souls and convert people by distancing yourselves from the extreme right wing. It's a turn off to anyone who is on the fence about Jesus.

I converted to christianity a long time ago, but it was not because of "Dr. Dino" or because of Jerry Falwell or Karl Rove. It was simply because I watched a black preacher during the Rodney King riots physically put himself between a white man who had been beaten and spraypainted, and a vicious mob or street gang members, and save the guy.

That to me, was what Christianity is all about, and it saved me that very day!!

Thanks for your observation, Arieson.

I don't think I Bible thump others...but if you say so, that's something I should look at. Sometimes I get into deep conversations with people and I borrow wisdom from the Bible, but I usually don't take the offensive and tell others to blindly convert before they've learned my name.lol

Life happens and sometimes at that moment, I can pull up a verse from the Bible that accurately describes the situation before us...which usually sparks a conversation.

I'm not anti-science at all; I believe there is alot of valid information about evolution. Fundamental science research is a very important field.

I do believe there is wisdom in a Biblical concern for stem cell research and when I mean wisdom, we should be careful what we do because playing with life itself can change the world as we know it...

[Tom Yum]

...thanks for that image, Hanibal.

I'm now a Roman leader?

[darrianation]

“The RISK factor cannot be done away with by taking guns from the law abiding. You see gun laws only affect the law abiding not the criminal; it only disarms the good guys.”

We saw a perfect example of the tragic results this leads too at Virginia tech where the good guys were striped of their rights to carry guns. The fact that only the bad guy had a gun ensured that there were would be more victims. If the good guys had guns there would have been far fewer casualties.

[Ahsen]

I'm now a Roman leader?

No I think he's picking up some Character off from some horror movie with the same name. LOL

Mr Garland since your very active here whats your opinion on Gun control ?

and what about you TreeLizard do you think its guns or the people that kill ?

PS how re you 'Tom