Senator Obama VS Senator Clinton

[jubaji]

The European outlook has been distorted by the experience of quietly allowing the sovereignty of member states to be sacrificed at the altar of the EU. Since the sovereignty of each EU member has come to mean less and less, they (want to) think the sovereignty of all countries means less and less. Also, believing that the UN somehow has controling authority over the US soothes their feelings of impotence since as members of that particular 'club' they can feel they have a part of that authority. This may be what leads some idiots to say the US presidential election "is really the world's election," and other such nonsense.

[jubaji]

Setting policy are we? In others the mral issue as you see fit. Iraq is an immoral war McCain supported, supports. Anythging after that is downhill arguement. Good luck.

Oh brother...

that was really weak

[Ghost]

Right firstly the UN isnt some "out there" organization. America is part of the UN, its not like they are going to this weird group of people that judge the US. The UN is all the constituent members ie the countries that make up the UN, of which America is one. And in fact the biggest supporter of the UN according to your earlier post stating they contribute the most.

In terms of breaking a contract, there is no other party with the UN charter. The UN charter was written by the united states and other member countries. Its not these guys and those guys, you wrote it, we wrote it.

The UN condemned Iraq but it didnt authorize the use of force. THis was the correct choice. The UN did the right thing and had the US + UK followed the UN the war would not have happened. America + UK ignored the UN and fought a war illegally under the UN charter.
You can square it however you like, america + UK made lots of statements and was wrong.

If America and the UK had stuck to the UN process, we would not be in this mess.
So yes the UN isnt that effective. Probably because no one sticks to their own contracts.

[Ghost]

Yeah but you arent following why i said what i did.
I said that the contracts laws, its a treaty but ok, the contracts laws state the war is illegal. If you pull out of a contract the contract is dissolved. This contract has not been pulled out of and still stands. in fact the US is still using it today. So it hasnt given up on the contract and still, demonstrably, stands by it.
Had they pulled out of the UN and gone to war then it would be a different story, and the ethical debate would rage.

The point i was making with the right and wrong was in relation to comments about the UN being ineffective. SO i pointed out that had we followed the UN route we wouldnt be in the mess we are in now. Which is the whole point the UN was set up in the first place really.

[Hardball]

Since Mike started a new thread I can now mention Hilliary's Statement about being under Sniper fire in Bosnia. LOL Wow, how can you misquote something like that?

[Ghost]

Since Mike started a new thread I can now mention Hilliary's Statement about being under Sniper fire in Bosnia. LOL Wow, how can you misquote something like that?

LOL yeah that was good, to me, you could see she was lieing when she was telling it, she wanted some of hte glory mccain was getting.
I mean FFS

CAn you imagine. "now we are sorry 1st lady, youll have to run because theres a sniper, so just run as fast as you can and keep your head down."

Yeah right, as if they would have just said run, she would have been jumped by body gaurds or not even let out of the plane, the way she made it sound was she was being shot at before she even got out and they just told her to run. She made that up, Obama and McCain can pounce on that now. Not that its worth much but they could.

[Hardball]

Yea, in military circles they call people who make up stories, wannabees. LOL

[Ghost]

Yea, in military circles they call people who make up stories, wannabees. LOL

yeah that sounds about right in this case, just watched it again on CNN a little while ago and you can so tell she is lieing and that she knows it. You can just tell by her face and tone, like a kid saying they didnt do it.

[Ghost]

Actually the UN charter is an implementation of International Law.
The UN enforces law through the international court of justice. Or at least it attempts to.

In my opinion the UN is in principal a good idea, its only 50 years old so its still getting together but some parts of it are solid and i think it can improve if we would all start respecting it instead of pretending it doesnt exist. It has many, many faults, but the laws are real and there is a real court and it can make real judgements. and rightly so in my opinion.

[jubaji]

If you dont answer properly .

You saw the answer, right?

[jubaji]

But then, a DI like you likes to make assumptions about people, right?

................................ wow

[jubaji]

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq.

Britain. Basra.

[jubaji]

Press Iraq’s Leaders to Reconcile

Wow, pressing and engaging. Brilliant. That'll do it.

[jubaji]

Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East.

Wow, planning to launch a diplomatic effort; quite an accomplishment.

[jubaji]

Obama believes that America has a moral and security responsibility to confront Iraq’s humanitarian crisis

Wow, he must be happy we overthrew a hated and feared despot and that our aim is to secure Iraq rather than allowing it to be an adjuvant to terror and instability in an important part of the world.