Why is Kung Fu not considered to be truly effective in actual combat?

[jmd161]

the threats faced will vary each and every time.

Hmm no sh!t?!?!

(1) So how do you prepare for threats that will vary each and every time in a class??

(2) How do YOU know what you're being taught is the type of situations ,that actually occur on the street?

(3) Do you train firing guns from ackward postions such as flat on your back or from a moving car??

(4) Do you train to fire rounds at a target firing back at you?

(5) Do you practice fighting someone one on one ,then having the fight go to the ground ,and train defending against multiple attackers from that postion?

(6) Do you train how to protect yourself from being stabbed by a second attacker ,while fighting the first one? Even though you had NO CLUE ,that there's a second attacker?

(7) Do you train how to fire your gun at multiple attackers with guns?

There are so many questions i can ask that i'm sure you don't train for ,but i'm sure you'll say you do. Unless the person training the class is an actual thug from the street that has done alot of this stuff. You're really not prepared for much. Like i said before common sense goes a long way in preparing for the streets.

(1) Such as knowing the area you're travling to or through.

(2) Being aware of your surroundings.

(3) Parking or walking in well lit areas at night.

(4) Walking or sitting in well traveled or crowded areas.

These things help you prepare ,but you're still not prepared!!

Probably not all that much, im not answering your stupid question, depending on the person/situation that percentage can change and as smart as you think you are there is no percentage, anything can happen. BUT im just commenting on your lack of reading skills. From you are saying to Bri im getting the impression that someone with 0, (thats ZERO if you can't read) skills of any sort WHATSOEVER will be just as well off on the streets as someone that has at least some knowledge of what might happen, some knowledge of basic self defense, some knowledge of aiming and firing a gun, some knowledge of anything that has to do with being street smart. That just makes no sense, and YES im taking into account that anything can happen, YES that training could all mean absolutely nothing in a certain scenario where a guy has a gun to your head, but the guy with training i think its safe to say in most or at least some situations (Not 100%) has a better chance of survival...

So once again.

How do you prepare when ANYTHING can happen????

How do you train when you don't know when,what,where,why or how someone is going to attack you?

This is what i'm interested in knowing??

It does'nt have to be a gun or knife ,it could be you're standing in line in Mc Donalds ,and someone just cold cocks you from behind. How do you train for that scenerio???

You can be using the toliet at a public rest room and someone walks to the stall next to you and pulls a knife or gun. How do you train for that??


These are the ways things happen on the street. Crooks evolve everyday. Do you two seriously think these classes keep up with the new method ,and techniques as fast as the crooks create them? lol

jeff

[KopyKat]

OMG buddy you just don't get it at all do you?
FACT: You can't prepare for EVERYTHING on the street, but you can have a better chance of AVOIDING it.
FACT: You will have an advantage over a person who doesn't know anything.
FACT: The 4 things you listed WILL help you survive on the street which are probably things you get TAUGHT to know which is considered T R A I N I N G, can you read that word there? You don't just know these things out of no where when your born, you must be told! And yes common sense helps alot too of course. But not everyone will know these things right off the bat.

Also you are not taking into account situations that training WILL help you out, are you saying that fighting a thug one on one with no fighting knowledge whatsoever is just as good as fighting him and actually knowing what your doing?? Thats just ridiculous! You are missing the whole point we are trying to get to you...And keep in mind we all don't live in brooklyn, in my city even just some sort of combat fighting training will greatly increase your chances of surviving a fight.
Being conditioned, in shape and just being aware and stuff like that is even a plus over being an average joe and that goes for anywhere...

[Thai Bri]

Easy peasy.

1. You do not magically become an expert in one class.

2. Because I've not only been in a great many situations, I have investigated hundreds that have occured to other people. I also use my common sense.

3. Firearms are illegal in the UK, and it is very rare for the law abiding to be threatened by them.

4. As above.

Mind you, I have seen the training given to Firearms Officers in my force. It includes very very realistic training methods.

5. Yes. And I have done it for real on two occasions.

6. I train to have a clue that there is a second attacker. But, of course, if he manages to sneak up behind me without my knowledge and stick a knife in me, I am going to bleed. Do remember I have consistently said that no one can be invincilbe.

7. No.

There. Satisified? I doubt it! I think you're trying to creat an unwinnable scenario and use that as evidence that you can NEVER be prepared. Another example of illogical reasoning. Even the best drivers can be in a crash - but that does not mean that they are far far better prepared than the rest of us!

This is the central error you are making. You interpret the fact that no one is invincible as evidence that you can NEVER PREPARE. The ways you can prepare are endless, as of course the threats you may face are.

By the way, I did not answer "yes" to all your questions. Once again your instinct is to put silly words into my mouth, and then tell me how silly they are. But I never said them in the first place......

This is why I call you idiot.

[KopyKat]

All we are saying is that you can prepare for certain situations, NOT ALL OF THEM! Thats obvious enough. But you can have a better chance to avoid these fatal situations with good judgment and some knowledge/training. Your talking like its always a situation where you can't do anything and your screwed, in that case why would we even have cops if no matter what training they have they are useless? There are a huge number of situations you can be in, and a number of those can be avoided or be assessed and dealed with. The other number can't be won...so why wouldn't you train so that at least if the situation that you can do something about arises, you can at least have an idea how to deal with it? Like Bri has been saying the whole time, no is invincible, but some training/knowledge could save your life one day...

[Thai Bri]

The guy is an idiot.

You can prepare for crossing the road. Ok, one day a car may come up behind you, onto the pavement and then crash into you and kill you. But so friggin what!! It still doesn't mean that you cannot prepared for the road. You should still look both ways before you cross it!

What a wanker he is.

[jmd161]

OMG buddy you just don't get it at all do you?

It's not me that does'nt get it!!

You can't prepare for EVERYTHING on the street, but you can have a better chance of AVOIDING it.

DAMN!!!

That is the samething i've been saying the whole time!! It will make you BETTER prepared ,but you ARE NOT prepared!! Better prepared and prepared are two entirely different things.

FACT: You will have an advantage over a person who doesn't know anything.

Again, something i've stated many times already!!

FACT: The 4 things you listed WILL help you survive on the street which are probably things you get TAUGHT to know which is considered T R A I N I N G, can you read that word there?

CAN "YOU" READ AT ALL?!?!

I never said that training does'nt HELP!

You don't just know these things out of no where when your born, you must be told! And yes common sense helps alot too of course. But not everyone will know these things right off the bat.

What's your point....??

I never aid training does'nt help or work i only said it does'nt make you PREPARED!!

Also you are not taking into account situations that training WILL help you out

No, you think i'm not taking that into account.

I'm sure there are many times that training ,as well as luck ,will help someone out.

are you saying that fighting a thug one on one with no fighting knowledge whatsoever is just as good as fighting him and actually knowing what your doing??

You talk about me learning to read?!?!

Where did i say that?

Thats just ridiculous!

I agree 100% ,but you said it not me.

You are missing the whole point we are trying to get to you...And keep in mind we all don't live in brooklyn, in my city even just some sort of combat fighting training will greatly increase your chances of surviving a fight.
Being conditioned, in shape and just being aware and stuff like that is even a plus over being an average joe and that goes for anywhere...

No! You two are missing the point ,in search of an argument.

Most of the stuff we have all written here ,is the same as far as what were're saying about the streets. It's just said differently.

I'll try again.

YOU can try and train for street situations. It IS better than NO training at all. SOME training is ALWAYS better than NONE!!

But, it still DOES NOT make you PREPARED. BETTER prepared YES prepared NO!!!

jeff

[KopyKat]

Agreed! I mean by prepared you are most prepared you can be, but for both sides theres always times where the other guys were just more prepared then you are...

[Thai Bri]

YOU can try and train for street situations. It IS better than NO training at all. SOME training is ALWAYS better than NONE!!

But, it still DOES NOT make you PREPARED. BETTER prepared YES prepared NO!!!

jeff

No. Durrrrr. Some training is certainly not always better than none. Only good training is better than none. Bad training, which is not uncommon, is certainly not better than none.

Logically you cannot be "better prepared" at something that you cannot be "prepared" at. It is simple logic. It isn't just semantics. If you cannot be prepared, how can you be even better prepared? It is senseless.


The fact is this. Each and everybody comes with some natural, in built preparation in the form of their senses and experience. Even birds do. Thats why they fly away. But, through training and experience, you can heighten your preparedness to a massive degree. This makes you far far safer than everyone else. No, not invincible. But the odds of your survival are mega.

You can do this preparation. You can train for the streets. All this "better prepared but not prepared" talk is one of the least logical arguments that anyone could possibly make. Especially when made by a person who keeps outlining different ways to prepare in an attempt to prove that you cannot be prepared! And who outlines the view that, since the bad guys can prepare....it makes you unable to prepare, there fore no one can prepare! DUUUUURRRRRRR!

I hereby crown you King Wanker of the Week! Congratulations. You won the title.

Tell me....... how did you prepare?

[Seismic Anamoly]

Someone close this thread already.

[jmd161]

Someone close this thread already.

I agree 100%


jeff

[jmd161]

Not too many, but it did sound as though you were saying that. Although i must point out that the most succesful criminal are cut from a dif

I don't know how you thought that i never mentioned a holster so.....

If you're carrying illegal hand guns ,i fail to see the sense in wearing them in holsters?!?!

Umm yes it does actually you arent looking thru the sights and with one shot the gun moves and increade ammount sideways. When its held properly gravity is is limiting the kick more. Besides they jerk the trigger so chances are that the first shot'll miss and the second will be so far off...

Not if that's the way you train!!

I'm not saying that i shot that way or ppl should ,but ppl do alot of things the should'nt right!!!

As far as the cop shooting upside's down that's a load of crap, i'd think that he'd be kicked off the force.

Well you'd think WRONG!!!

The cop lost his trigger finger in an accident ,so he trained using the gun upside down to keep his status. Do a search on the internet ,you can read his story.

This is pretty amusing actually, if you've used your weapon after you're done with it you change or rerifle the barrel, and change the firing pin. That way there's no ballistics. According to what you say with the resources at his disposal i dont think getting a new barrel and firing pin would be difficult.

Bro, ppl on the street aint taking time to rerifle a barrel. If you commit a murder with the weapon ,you get rid of it period!! At most you use it once or twice more ,but you're pushing your luck.

Anyways you clearly arent familiar with weapons which can be concealed under a coat and posses massive firepower, and seeing your friend had the resources i would have though he would have had some of them. Now i understand that they're out of the price range of many of the "gangstas" but if have crates of M-16's these would be in your range.

I told you i'm not a gun buff or did you not read my post?

I don't care if it's a S & M,Colt,GLOCK or Disney World ,it's a small world european edition 9mm!!! As long as it fires and does the job ,that's all i'm worried about!!!

jeff

[IPON]

Are you serious bro?

How many ppl involved in street violence (illegal crimes) ,do you know that wear holsters???

This is how i know that most of you talking have not been on the streets. You're not going to walk down the street with a AK-47,AR-15,7mm, or weapons like that. You buy a $50 9mm use it ,if you kill someone with it ,you discard it. You're not going to keep a gun with bodies on it ,that's foolish!!!

I agree I think it is amazing how much people know about "THE STREET" and frequently show there ignorance real situations and inexperience in what happens with fighting. I guess that why they say ignorance is bliss.....at least some have that option and should feel fortunate...not everyone does.

[IPON]

This is pretty amusing actually, if you've used your weapon after you're done with it you change or rerifle the barrel, and change the firing pin. That way there's no ballistics. According to what you say with the resources at his disposal i dont think getting a new barrel and firing pin would be difficult.

Think disposable. Think context. Think outside your closed world. Most importantly think before you write

[IPON]

Regarding the point of the thread like any MA if KF stylists train to fight many styles are efeective. Howver, many ppl do not put in the time or dedication necessary to make kf effective. And that DOES mean if it takes 6-8 years to make the style effective then it takes 6-8 yrs. If that is too long fine. But do say it is not effective you could argue that is not practical to learn some chinese styles becuase of the learning curve.


PS I agree with everyone close this thread!!!!

[jmd161]

I misread what you had posted and thought you mentioned a hip holster, oh well. Anyways a shoulder holster is just one of carrying concealed.

Ohhh boy........

Okay let me get this straight you'd rather do something because it looks cool even though something else works better. Besides i dont care how you train if you hold the gun sideways if its bigger than a 22 you wont get an accurate second shot. What you see on tv is guns loaded with blanks or just enough powder for the ejection mechanism to fire.

Do you even attempt to read what i write???

I said that i DON'T shoot or recommend ppl shoot that way ,but ppl do.

I don't know what you said hear, but the fact of the matter is that there are time tested methods of firing pistols that work, now this new crap that looks cool doesnt work.

Ohhh i get it you're some kin to Thai Bri!!! Huh???

Why dont you do a search and proove it to me, because its difficult to prove a negative. You could always say you arent looking in the right place but there is an article out there somewhere except nobody can find it.

You're the one that does'nt believe it's true ,what do i gain by finding it for you???

Proof that i was telling the truth?

I don't need that i know i'm telling the truth!!

Okay, you could simply replace the barrel or if you want to rerifle you just jam the rifling rod in there, and yank it out. Doesn't sound like a lengthy process does it? If shell casings are left behind (you can hook up bags to contain shells) you simply have to replace the firing pin. Now this is too complex for you guys but there are many guns that can be easily converted to other calibers, so you could commit a crime with a legal gun changed to another caliber and then change it back.

Why go thru any of that???

Why sit on a murder weapon?

People that don't spend time in the streets don't understand the streets!!!

I'm not sitting round trying to change firing pins and barrles on a hot gun with a body or bodies on IT!!!

Okay now i understand why you guys never do manage to become as succesful as the La Costra Nostra, Russian Mafia, or any other succesful crime family. Only problem is these guys are too succesful and attrack much more attention and resources from the fedral government who ultimatly end up crushing them.

LOL Ha Ha Ha Ha


jeff