Do soldiers make better Martial Artists?

[47MartialMan]

And why shouldnt the armed forces be considered as a martial art/artists, they are training for war-martial. Art is the methods and practices of martial....

[koto_ryu]

Yeah; I read about something like in some book written by a Marine where he says college kids pestered them lots too.

Oh, by age limit, I meant what is the Marine's age limit for letting one join Force Recon? Like what is the cutoff age before they say, "Hey man, you're too old for this."

My buddy Thatcher was 38 when he went through BRC (Basic Reconnaisance Course)

[Broadsword2004]

Yeah; I read about something like in some book written by a Marine where he says college kids pestered them lots too.

Oh, by age limit, I meant what is the Marine's age limit for letting one join Force Recon? Like what is the cutoff age before they say, "Hey man, you're too old for this."

[koto_ryu]

I remember reading one soldier who said he came back in a wheelchair, and a whole group of anti-war people were following him, yelling at him, and then they banged all on his bus as he drove away (makes you wonder, what's wrong with people! they get so wrapped up in an opinion, they forget what the opinion itself stands for).

It was like that in some instances for OIF as well. I spent a night in LA County Jail after my buddy and I got in a fight with these five college kids who were taunting us hardcore about the whole babykiller and whatnot thing they probably copped off of their favorite war movie. We ignored it for a time, eventually decided to leave, but thats when a drunker one of the five decided to toss a beer bottle at Big D. Needless to say, we gave them a beating they won't forget for some time and the cops were more sympathetic towards us than most. Shit like that happens all over, some people are just looking for a cause to mindlessly devote themselves to (in this case, protesting a war) and never look at the big picture.

[koto_ryu]

Hey koto_ryu, since the subject of the Marine Corps was brought up, do you know the age limit for like Marine Force Recon, for an officer??

You can stay with Recon as long as they'll let you stay in the Corps, I met a SgtMaj who was pushing 50 and could still run the average operator into the ground.

[47MartialMan]

I had always had the opinion that any miltary fighting method is a martial art

[Broadsword2004]

Hey koto_ryu, since the subject of the Marine Corps was brought up, do you know the age limit for like Marine Force Recon, for an officer??

[Broadsword2004]

That makes sense. I don't think you're going to get two agreeing points of view from anyone who's commentating on something that stirs up so much emotion like the Vietnam War. Every time I meet a Vietnam Vet I shake their hand and tell them thank you. I've come back from ops and had the majority of people back home not even know that we're fighting in that particular part of the world. Sometimes that was hard to take. But to be one of the lucky ones and make it back from Vietnam, then get spit on by your own people, I just don't get that. I can't even concieve how hard that must have been!

Jeremy, that's EXACTLY what happened to this Special Forces guy! He said about 5 minutes after he got off the plane from Vietnam, he got spit on (literally) by some hardcore anti-war person. He said he felt like giving the guy a good crack on the head, but of course that would've been a very bad thing to do, so he said instead he went up to the guy and asked if he could buy him a drink and talk. The guy said yes, so they talked, and he said he couldn't change the guy's opinion, but he says he think that guy came away with a better understanding of what those U.S. soldiers in Vietnam were going through, and what it was like when people like him did stuff like that (i.e. spit on them).

He also told me about a guy he knew who had a low I.Q. and thus thought it would be cool to join the Army right at the height of the Vietnam War. That guy was just your standard grunt, I guess a real Forest-Gump type. He saw some heavy heavy combat though and when he came back from Vietnam, he just went straight to his bedroom and wouldn't come out for weeks.

For years he refused to say about what happened over in Vietnam, but then eventually he came out and told this guy that he must've killed an insanely large number of people while over there. He was wounded too, which he said was when they were walking through the jungle, and all of a sudden they were in an intense firefight, and the Vietnamese were firing artillery of some type. He said he flattened out on the ground because he was terrified, but then he said he realized he was a sitting duck there because of the artillery, so he got up to move some, and right as he'd gotten up and moved a few feet, a shell landed right where he'd been laying. It blew shrapnel all up his back (a lot of it is still there today); I think then he was sent home. He won't talk about that though with anyone else.

Yeah, I don't get how people could be so mean to such soldiers either.

I remember reading one soldier who said he came back in a wheelchair, and a whole group of anti-war people were following him, yelling at him, and then they banged all on his bus as he drove away (makes you wonder, what's wrong with people! they get so wrapped up in an opinion, they forget what the opinion itself stands for).

[GeorgeK]

koto_ruy,

Thanks a lot for the info. It seems like the recruiters want to enlist me as soon as possible. They are saying that my enlistment will speed up my citizenship process and will take about a year as opposed to two years if I didn’t enlist. They also say that if I enlist now I may apply for an Officer Candidate School once I get my citizenship. On the contrary if I take more time to think about it, it may be too late then to try to become an officer because of the age – it’s after 30 I think that is too late. Also, they say, that once I get my citizenship, and after two years of service, I can make what they call a lateral move and switch specialties. Does it sound right? I believe those specialties you listed may require me to be a citizen as well. So, right now it’s Admin most likely. As an Admin, will I be deployed with my unit or stay on base all the time? Just curious. Also, I heard that the guaranteed job isn’t really guaranteed, and that the Corps my put you on a job they see fit for you. Is that true? Anyway, I am considering my options, and will most likely enlist within period of a few months. Thank for the info, and everybody else sorry for stealing the thread.

[koto_ryu]

Hey, koto_ryu. I just found out from your posts you're a former Marine. See, I am contemplating heavily about joining the Corps and talking to recruiters right now. Could you give me some advice? See, I'm 26. I've got a Bachelors in Computer Networking. I just thought I could be helpful in the Corps with my knowledge of PCs and proficiency in another language - Russian. Turns out I can't really go for those MOS - to be a data specialist or a linguist, one has to be a citizen and have a security clearance. (I will become a citizen within a year or two).

Once you get in the Corps you'll be able to take a Language Proficiency Test where they will test your Russian. If it qualifies they'll pay you extra money for that per month and also use you from time to time. As for the Data Systems and whatnot, there are other fields that use computers that you might get into. How much longer until you become a citizen? You can join the Marine Corps (or any branch of service in fact) up to the age of 32 with no problem. I met a guy who joined when he was 34, he's now around 40 years old and a Corporal in the Marine Corps.

So, the only MOS that I really can do are Admin and Accounting/Finance (I am really not an infantry or mechanic type of guy, nothing else appeals to me) Also, like I said, I wanted to be useful with what I studied for and what I'm good at. In your posts, you refer to Admin guys as geeks and nerds, etc. Is that how Admin guys are looked at by others?

Actually I have some good friends that are Admin. My buddy Kirby is a Cpl and he works at the Pentagon in the Legal Administration Section. The reason why the field-driven MOSes tend to look down on some of them is that in the Admin field, you're in garrison virtually all the time so you have to deal with a lot more regulations and the like, whereas grunts don't adhere to them as much. Hence, a lot of Admin guys give grunts shit about it, so the grunts give shit back, etc. You'll definitely make friends though: my buddy would hook us up on leave if you got him some beer, some instead of charging us 20 days of leave, he'd charge maybe 10-15 instead

I thought the Corps was a brotherhood.

It still is very much so. I went drinking with the recruiters nearby on the Marine Corps Birthday and I didn't even know who they were until that day. I just pulled up to the office, introduced myself, and invited them out to Hooters, my treat. They ended up not letting me pay for it and we killed quite a few pitchers together. It's like a big family, but like in every family you get the asshole brother or sister, the annoying one, etc.

Now you're saying that MA in the Corps don't exactly measure up.

Just the actual formal program, really. It's a good step in the right direction but needs more application. Many, many Marines participate in the martial arts however, and you will often find several classes offered on even the smallest bases. We also have a wrestling team, boxing team, kickboxing team, and a judo team.

Why am I thinking about the Marines? I wouldn't want to be in any other branch. The more I learn about the values and the organization as a whole, the more it appeals to me. So, any suggestions for me? Have you known anyone in my situation who enlisted? Or is enlisting more for someone right out of high school? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

As I said before, you can join up to the age of 32 with no trouble. The older guys that go through boot camp and the like tend to do much better than their younger counterparts and you'll advance much more quickly. Have you talked with a recruiter yet about all your MOS options? There's other schools where your computing skills might come in handy: Aviation Electronics, Fire Direction Controller, Air Traffic Controller, flight crews, etc.

[GeorgeK]

Hey, koto_ryu. I just found out from your posts you're a former Marine. See, I am contemplating heavily about joining the Corps and talking to recruiters right now. Could you give me some advice? See, I'm 26. I've got a Bachelors in Computer Networking. I just thought I could be helpful in the Corps with my knowledge of PCs and proficiency in another language - Russian. Turns out I can't really go for those MOS - to be a data specialist or a linguist, one has to be a citizen and have a security clearance. (I will become a citizen within a year or two).So, the only MOS that I really can do are Admin and Accounting/Finance (I am really not an infantry or mechanic type of guy, nothing else appeals to me) Also, like I said, I wanted to be useful with what I studied for and what I'm good at. In your posts, you refer to Admin guys as geeks and nerds, etc. Is that how Admin guys are looked at by others? Do the infantry and Special Ops guys look down on office guys? I thought the Corps was a brotherhood. Maybe I'm naive. I really am just an outsider looking in. Why am I thinking of joining the Corps? A few reasons. Be a part of an awesome military organization with long history and traditions. Serve this country. No job currently and no prospect of getting a decent one in this economy. Thought I'd continue my conditioning and MA training while serving. I have a bit training in MA but never claim to be a bad ass nor act that way. (Referring to the Admin nerd guys ) Now you're saying that MA in the Corps don't exactly measure up. Why am I thinking about the Marines? I wouldn't want to be in any other branch. The more I learn about the values and the organization as a whole, the more it appeals to me. So, any suggestions for me? Have you known anyone in my situation who enlisted? Or is enlisting more for someone right out of high school? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
George.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Point of view!

Yeah, Marine Boot Camp in Full Metal Jacket was portrayed well, but otherwise, it was a former Special Forces Vietnam Vet guy who told me that the Vietnam it portrayed was very fake.

That makes sense. I don't think you're going to get two agreeing points of view from anyone who's commentating on something that stirs up so much emotion like the Vietnam War. Every time I meet a Vietnam Vet I shake their hand and tell them thank you. I've come back from ops and had the majority of people back home not even know that we're fighting in that particular part of the world. Sometimes that was hard to take. But to be one of the lucky ones and make it back from Vietnam, then get spit on by your own people, I just don't get that. I can't even concieve how hard that must have been!

[Broadsword2004]

Yeah, Marine Boot Camp in Full Metal Jacket was portrayed well, but otherwise, it was a former Special Forces Vietnam Vet guy who told me that the Vietnam it portrayed was very fake.

[Jeremy Lobdell]

Movies

From what I've been told by Vietnam veterans, Full Metal Jacket was very accurate at portraying Marine Boot Camp life, the rest of the movie showed the hipocracy of war , especially when the full bird colonel was saying "we've got to hunker down until this peace craze passes". Top Gun was used by the Navy as a recruiting tool, but very few people actually get the chance to enter flight school. It was about on par with G.I. Jane, meaning not very accurate.
Mahalo, Jeremy

[Broadsword2004]

Ya; that movie "Platoon" with Charlie Sheen though is pretty realistic, so don't assume all his military movies are fake.

I don't get people who say "Full Metal Jacket" is realistic though; and I also don't get people who say that "Top Gun" made them want to be a fighter pilot; am I the only person who was turned off from being a fighter pilot by that movie?? Luckily though, that movie was fake as hell too.