Forms vs reality?

[polecat63]

That would NOT be like forms. If they just swung the racket without hitting the ball, over and over, moving around the court in a series of pre-planned steps, that would be sort of like forms.

Spoilsport!

But I did something very similar when I played tennis in high school. We were made to swing the racket over and over again so we wouldn't have to think about it in an actual match. There, is that better?

Repetitive motion is used in many sports as a training exercise. Granted, many arts train movements that most professional dancers would be envious of, but form are not worthless.

[jubaji]

Yeah, they practice! If they want to learn how to hit backhand they hit backhand shots over and over...er..no wait. That would be like forms. DAMN!

That would NOT be like forms. If they just swung the racket without hitting the ball, over and over, moving around the court in a series of pre-planned steps, that would be sort of like forms.

[polecat63]

It doesnt really make sense...its like a tennis player who trains to be the best at tennis by fixing bikes.

Yeah, they practice! If they want to learn how to hit backhand they hit backhand shots over and over...er..no wait. That would be like forms. DAMN!

[kuk sool won]

You can't look at a form as a whole, you need to break it down into smallers parts, each of the parts is a different technique which you practice when you do a form. It helps to develop these techniques

A lot of people who haven't been trained to fight can't really flow attacks into one another, its just a flurry of badly timed punches which don't really hold any true power. Take a boxer for instance, they all have their own little combinations even if its as simple as jab - straight. Same applies to some forms, punches flow into kicks, kicks flows into knees etc.

[Mephariel]

you know what i say is true...stop living in ancient rome and try to understand my analogy.im sorry your martial arts investement went down the drain...

the only good martial arts were free..ages ago......if you wanna train..train in a sport (mt,boxing,mma)

i personnaly think thoses who turn to traditional martial arts are looking for a secret ancient forbidden technique that will enlighten them with no punches in the face and no knocking them out HARD.

but hey..nobody said boxing is easy

I am hoping you are young and naive so I can pardon your ridiculous posts.

[shaolin-warrior]

you know what i say is true...stop living in ancient rome and try to understand my analogy.im sorry your martial arts investement went down the drain...

the only good martial arts were free..ages ago......if you wanna train..train in a sport (mt,boxing,mma)

i personnaly think thoses who turn to traditional martial arts are looking for a secret ancient forbidden technique that will enlighten them with no punches in the face and no knocking them out HARD.

but hey..nobody said boxing is easy

All kidding aside, you are joking, right?

[jubaji]

Nobody said reading your crap was easy either...

[white devil]

you know what i say is true...stop living in ancient rome and try to understand my analogy.im sorry your martial arts investement went down the drain...

the only good martial arts were free..ages ago......if you wanna train..train in a sport (mt,boxing,mma)

i personnaly think thoses who turn to traditional martial arts are looking for a secret ancient forbidden technique that will enlighten them with no punches in the face and no knocking them out HARD.

but hey..nobody said boxing is easy

[Mephariel]

?

i think youre mistaken...martial arts are first a buisness to make money out of people like you by selling showy forms and brainwashing you with hong kong movies.

self-defense? dont make me laugh..for a life of training to protect yourself why dont u just invest in a weapon? They try to make you think you need ma to protect yourself...please...ma is a product...so is a gun....a gun is more effective...and 100% dependable.

I prefer the sport over the ma because you can compete against something real and not just a ''fear'' you have when u pass through the dark alley at night.

Open your eyes..please...admit that martial arts is a buisness and thats kind of what is running it into the ground of our capitalist society...it is a little different in other continents though.


But, if youre talking about martial arts philosophy and as way to liberate your soul and to nurish your brain..then i admire you for being well educated


but other than that you are just a byproduct of ''martial arts''

sorry for my english

Are you serious? So you are saying that ancient romans never used martial techniques in wars? You are saying Chinese and Japanese never used martials in their armies or bodyguards? History is just showy movies right? I can't believe you said "martial arts are first a buisness to make money." Maybe for a lot of people it is. But martial arts certainly didn't start out that way. As to why people don't own a gun, I don't know why. Maybe because they hate guns? Maybe because they don't feel safe having guns around children? Why does it matter? Maybe they just like MA better?

[white devil]

Martial arts are systems of self-defense first and foremost. I don't see where you get "sport" from. If martial arts are a sport first and foremost, then wouldn't pretty forms competition be more important than self-defense

?

i think youre mistaken...martial arts are first a buisness to make money out of people like you by selling showy forms and brainwashing you with hong kong movies.

self-defense? dont make me laugh..for a life of training to protect yourself why dont u just invest in a weapon? They try to make you think you need ma to protect yourself...please...ma is a product...so is a gun....a gun is more effective...and 100% dependable.

I prefer the sport over the ma because you can compete against something real and not just a ''fear'' you have when u pass through the dark alley at night.

Open your eyes..please...admit that martial arts is a buisness and thats kind of what is running it into the ground of our capitalist society...it is a little different in other continents though.


But, if youre talking about martial arts philosophy and as way to liberate your soul and to nurish your brain..then i admire you for being well educated


but other than that you are just a byproduct of ''martial arts''

sorry for my english

[shaolin-warrior]

oh i have another question.....i know where boxers fight...but where do kung fu fighters fight?....besides in movies set

That was funny, you forgot on the internet defending their chosen TMA.

[shaolin-warrior]

I currently study two forms of martial arts, both of them shaolin in origin. One being Kung Fu, and the other being Kempo. The Kung Fu Forms are very complex with a lot of rigorous jumps and kicks and very low stances. Not Exactly conducive to fighting on the mats or on the street. The only up side to that is that my kempo forms are fast and hard and very conducive to fighting any where. The Kung Fu gives me incredible balance and stamina, calves and quads like twisted steel. It is flowery but has a lot of hidden self defense techniques, if taught by someone who can pull them out of the forms and show them to you. The Kempo Forms are just blinding flurries of blocks, punches, kicks and take downs. I've placed well at open tournaments against other styles using a combination of both styles.

[Mephariel]

I read an interview with Steve Cotter, a hsing yi stylist and full contact kung fu champ. His comment was that fighters shouldn't spend much time on forms, they should spend most of their time drilling and sparring. If you're not a fighter then you should spend more time on your forms because they contain the principles and concepts of the system.

Someone will probably point out that a fighter needs the principles and concepts of the system too but, if he has a good coach training him, he will probably be given what he needs.

Precisely. If you are going to be a sport fighter, you need experience first and foremost. You should start sparring and fighting in a ring environment as soon as you feel comfortable with the art. That doesn't mean forms are useless, it means you should make haste to start knowing your battlefield. Shorten your kung fu training if you have too.

[Mephariel]

ok,first of all running and skipping is not sport specific

Theres a difference you should understand between hitting a bag and shadowboxing, and performing pretty kung fu forms.Shadowboxing,sure it requires the fundamentals to be properly taught..but all the rest is left to your imagination.Forms are exact mimics of what you ''should'' do..if only forms limited themselves to simple executions (like in pad work) there wouldnt be much of a problem...the problem is the exact reproduction of a complex form that is more useless than pretty...plus the fact that it is non adaptable.

Now you tell me you'd rather execute forms because it trains your rythm,stamina and technique...what technique? a 4 year old can mimic a form...4 year old cant shadowbox freely

why spend valuable time learning the dance when you can be conditionning yourself and be evolving so much faster?Don't kid yourself..seriously..i was like you before

I don't understand your arguements at all. Forms requires the fundamentals to be properly taught too. Forms are not the exact mimic of what you should do, forms are the mimic of what a properly executed attack should look like. I think you are still confused. Forms are no different than if a boxing coach teach you how to properly punch. You can punch a hundred different ways, but there is still a proper way to execute a straight punch, or a hook. Think of a science experiment. You can do 1000 different experiment in a thousand different fields, but there is still only one way to use a pipette. There is still only one way to spread bacteria on a plate.

Your second arguement shows me that you are still confused. You said forms are non adaptable. That is true. But it is not supposed to be. Forms is to give you a set of tools that you must learn to execute properly. Why would you adapt your forms when you are not even fighting? Adapt to what? It is like using math formulas without a problem. Look, you can't adapt in a boxing ring if you don't know how to punch in the first place. How can you adapt in a boxing ring if you swing like a girl? You can say, I going to throw a jab and then a hook. Yeah...but you need to learn what a jab is first. If you don't have any foundation, how can you fight at all. Forms, bag punching, etc. gives you the foundation and physical capacity.

Lastly, a 4 year old can mimic form? LMAO. A 4 year old can't even do any stance without crying out in pain, let alone do a set. A four year old can do forms as much they can shadowbox. Not a chance. Sure, they can shadowbox...by punching like a girl and swinging wildly. Sure they can do forms, by having pissed poor machanics, zero power and speed.

but where does a fighter need to fight besides in the ring? dont tell me in the ''street'' cuz if you feel threathened why dont you just carry a gun?

to me, personnaly, martial arts are a sport first..........

Martial arts are systems of self-defense first and foremost. I don't see where you get "sport" from. If martial arts are a sport first and foremost, then wouldn't pretty forms competition be more important than self-defense?

[white devil]

but where does a fighter need to fight besides in the ring? dont tell me in the ''street'' cuz if you feel threathened why dont you just carry a gun?

to me, personnaly, martial arts are a sport first..........