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Wing Chun let me down in a fight

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  • #46
    Well... it teaches you how to redirect energy and use it to your advantage which would be a counter strike. Sensitivity.

    Standing there punching... No doesn't help anyone unless you don't know how to punch then they have to start with the very basics until you get up to speed.

    Then you play. That is where you become a better boxer because you use your sensitivity to redirct energy and throw your counter.

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    • #47
      Brando my buddy, I know that is what you have been taught and I appreciate that, because as a JKD guy I was taught that for years. I have to tell you friend, from moving into the world of Boxing, its all nonsense.

      Trapping, Energy, Sensitivity......its just got nothing to do with it. In that ring, on your toes in constant movement, with 16 oz gloves on and a good amateur or professional boxer in front of you unleashing a world of hurt........it just doesn't exist.

      The only thing that makes you a better boxer, is better boxing.

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      • #48
        Sure what you say makes sense. But does wing chun show you different angles and show you how to strike better and more percise.

        I am not talking about professional boxing when I say a better boxer there rules are different and you have to adapt to those rules, Wing Chun does not fit in there, but a better boxer in a MMA scene or street fight scene.

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        • #49
          For me personally, if it is hands be that Ring, Street or MMA - Boxing is king. People tend to use rules as an excuse to hide behind, many boxers apply their art very well outside the ring, very few Wing Chun guys step into one.

          Can Wing Chun punches offer something outside the ring? Sure, I certainly rate the jik chung choi, it can be very effective in applying a short burst of forward pressure.

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          • #50
            Maybe I am getting this confused with the JKD style of fighting.
            When someone throws outs a punch don't you find the attack, like in Wing Chun and follow the attack back with a strike of your own most noticably a jab or cross like a boxer would, but you find your reference point first so you don't get hit and have means to bridge the gap and get in range to oppose your will at the best angel?

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            • #51
              I understand what you mean Brando, I can only offer you my thoughts from experience. What you speak of is just theory, which can be applied very well in the many drills we use (or rather I once used) as a teaching method. In my personal experience, the chaos of real combat (ring or outside) does not allow for such formalities. People will try to convince you, all day long, of a tenuous link to this theory and these drills because they once caught a trap here or there against their buddy.

              You can spend your life trying to apply theory and drills to combat.....or you can just train in combat.

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              • #52
                No disagreement there Mike, just my answer was specific to the question which was based around functional use, as opposed to recreational martial arts.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by bodhisattva View Post
                  If I see a witch doctor trying to cure heart disease with voodoo, and it doesn't work, I don't assume I should just go find another witch doctor.

                  When I see Wing Chun make a face in ANY kind of unlimited fighting competition with ANY consistency, then I'll pay attention. Honestly. I'm fair. If they can pull it off, repeatedly, I'm interested.

                  Until then, I'll keep working my Freestlye/Greco handfighting drills.

                  And having a really sweet time, too.
                  If you believe that the UFC is the ultimate proving ground, then you are deluded. When a UFC fighter loses a fight, does this make him change arts? Or just train harder?

                  Even UFC fighters get done over in street confrontations or against superior odds (against five guys etc)

                  UFC is sport, like boxing. You have to train in particular ways and work the whole arena of martial arts, not just one art

                  If a pure boxer went into UFC, he would be slaughtered, not because boxing is rubbish but because there are occasions when fights go to the floor or opportunities arise for non-boxing techniques

                  And as for your witch doctor comments – that is a bad argument
                  If you go and see a doctor who prescribes you wrongly or messes up an operation, you would change doctors but you wouldn’t stop going to the hospital!!

                  If you went and saw a witch doctor who was fake, then you should try another

                  Basing opinions on one experience is narrow minded

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Michael Wright View Post
                    I know, and I am disagreeing with you.

                    I have seen the clips in question, and I don't mean to be rude or disrespectul to either person, but the boxing is not of a good quality - in my opinion.

                    In terms of the rest of your post, none of my comments were aimed at Wing Chun, so its not really relavent to me. My point was and is simply that your notion of these gentlemen giving boxers a run for their money, is something I disagree with.
                    You're entitled to your opinion. All I can say is that I have seen Master Chan up against some very good MT guys and boxers and he has destroyed them. Mainly because they were too fixed in their own art to allow for grappling or close range strikes

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by bodhisattva View Post
                      Yes, but lots of us on here have gone to tons of different Wing Chun teachers (individually) and have each decided it is a really inefficient (ineffective) system.

                      I am pretty sure Wing Chun works pretty well for one handed nuns that have a club foot. I mean, that's who came up with the system (we're told) her name was Wing Chun.

                      However, I'm a guy with both hands and feet still working. I figured I'd do best to find a system created by another guy who had both his hands and feet still.

                      We all went to different Wing Chun schools, and we each individually decided that we pretty much don't have much faith in it.

                      --

                      I am not interested in martial arts that promise to make me "an ok fighter" in a year, and a "great fighter" or a "master" in 10 years.

                      I might be, but wont be, so long as there are martial arts that can make me able to beat up the "master" after 4-6 months of training and some relatively minor levels of conditioning.

                      And that's what we all pretty much found in Wing Chun class - some "master" who could be defeated by a relatively new boxer or wrestler.

                      --

                      It's not that I never push my opponent's arms across his chest and pin them there - I just don't call the move something in Chinese, and I don't practice it with a useless energy drill that mimics positions that don't even occur in fighting.
                      If you're ever in town, come down to one of Master Chan's classes (anyone is welcoem to sit and watch) and ask him these kind of questions

                      He will give you an honest answer based on his experinces as a high ranking BJJ player, an active boxer and kickboxer and as a wing chunnner

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Red Rum View Post
                        You're entitled to your opinion. All I can say is that I have seen Master Chan up against some very good MT guys and boxers and he has destroyed them. Mainly because they were too fixed in their own art to allow for grappling or close range strikes
                        Fantastic, so are we going to see him in the ring soon?

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                        • #57
                          I don't know. He already competes at grappling tournaments (and wins them). He competed at SENI last April in BJJ but his choice top enter UFC is up to him. Bear in mind he is 40 and makes a lot of money teaching (so money is no incentive)

                          Oh and he has previously judged a lot of the UFC tournaments that occur in Britain, so he must be a bit good in order to be involved with that!

                          I also know that there are a few Kamon students who compete in MMA tournaments or competitions
                          I myslef do low level tournaments and primarily use my wing chun to devastating effect
                          The reason I don't go for UFC is that it would be a full time commitment of fitness and training and to be honest I train martial arts as more of a hobby, rather than every second of the day etc
                          I would also have to be a lot better at grappling

                          As for Alan Orr - he already competes in MMA and does well
                          He interviewed Mike Bispin for MAI magazine recently

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by freefighter2010 View Post
                            I ... had the crap beaten [out of] me by some drunk[ard].
                            No amount of martial arts training will make you invincible. Even martial artists in the movies lose fights and get hurt, except Steven Seagal. Martial arts training will never guarantee victory in no-holds-barred street fighting. Are you sure you lost to an actual drunkard? Were you drinking, too? Or did you lose to an expert in zui quan?

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                            • #59
                              People these days tend to mistake combat training to be the equivalent to invincibility, when in actuality it does nothing more than increase your odds of winning in a fight. So in the end, your opponent will still have a chance to kick your ass no matter how much you train.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Bjjexpertise@be View Post
                                People these days tend to mistake combat training to be the equivalent to invincibility, when in actuality it does nothing more than increase your odds of winning in a fight.
                                Some of what I see in martial arts will probably reduce the odds of winning a fight, by conditioning people into nonsense techniques and routines, when their natural instincts, common sense and attributes would have probably prevailed.

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